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Old 04-27-2017, 06:57 PM   #1
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Default Diesel fuel only

Kind of confused on whether I need a emergency stop that shuts all circuits to the dispenser off. I guess my question deals with article 514 in a sort off way. But I am not sure because I guess I have never come across this situation. There are no other fuels being dispensed at this site.
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:08 PM   #2
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Not for me. diesel is a non explosive liquid. I normally use seal offs going in and out though just in case they change.
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:41 PM   #3
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Not for me. diesel is a non explosive liquid. I normally use seal offs going in and out though just in case they change.
I put an emergency stop in because the old one had it, so I figured what the heck, I'll use it again. The ahj wants it 20 feet away. I think the 20 foot minimum 100 foot max is just for classified locations to get it out of the hazardous location.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:40 PM   #4
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I put an emergency stop in because the old one had it, so I figured what the heck, I'll use it again. The ahj wants it 20 feet away. I think the 20 foot minimum 100 foot max is just for classified locations to get it out of the hazardous location.
Last time I read 514, the E-Stop needed to be 20' away from the dispenser and no more than 100'. It is also in our (NC) Fire Code.

Typically the classified location for a flammable liquid is 20' from the dispenser to a height of 18" is C1D2 and the area w/in 2' of the dispenser being a C1D1. Since diesel is a combustible, you wouldn't have these C1D1 location from an NEC directive, but the State Fire Code may say otherwise (I believe it does in PA).
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:42 PM   #5
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Last time I read 514, the E-Stop needed to be 20' away from the dispenser and no more than 100'. It is also in our (NC) Fire Code.

Typically the classified location for a flammable liquid is 20' from the dispenser to a height of 18" is C1D2 and the area w/in 2' of the dispenser being a C1D1. Since diesel is a combustible, you wouldn't have these C1D1 location from an NEC directive, but the State Fire Code may say otherwise (I believe it does in PA).
My point is, how much of 514 do you have to follow for an unclassified liquid dispenser? May as well be dispensing water in a pool as far as the code is concerned. No idea why he gigged me.
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Old 04-29-2017, 05:26 PM   #6
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Guess I'm not the only one confused. This code section is based on fuel dispensing. The exception of flash point tells me diesel is unclassified, but tells me nothing of what to do for dispensing it.
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:28 PM   #7
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Guess I'm not the only one confused. This code section is based on fuel dispensing. The exception of flash point tells me diesel is unclassified, but tells me nothing of what to do for dispensing it.
Did ya ask the state inspector or fire inspector to see what they do cover on that code related to diesel fuel dispensing.,,

I try to read the 514 but are you on 11 or 14 cycle ?
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Old 04-29-2017, 10:51 PM   #8
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Guess I'm not the only one confused. This code section is based on fuel dispensing. The exception of flash point tells me diesel is unclassified, but tells me nothing of what to do for dispensing it.
I think you are on the right track here. You don't have to use sealoffs and x-proof fittings, but you still have to comply with fuel dispensing requirements because they are not based on classification but the dispensing of fuel, therefore the estops need to be installed as required.
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:23 PM   #9
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I think you are on the right track here. You don't have to use sealoffs and x-proof fittings, but you still have to comply with fuel dispensing requirements because they are not based on classification but the dispensing of fuel, therefore the estops need to be installed as required.
I put an e stop in. Just put it by the panel which is the only thing within 200'. Only thing is, it isn't 20' away. It's 10' away. Have to mount a post just to put an e stop, and risk it getting whacked by a semi with a trailer. To me it is more at risk than what I did.
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:16 AM   #10
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I put an e stop in. Just put it by the panel which is the only thing within 200'. Only thing is, it isn't 20' away. It's 10' away. Have to mount a post just to put an e stop, and risk it getting whacked by a semi with a trailer. To me it is more at risk than what I did.
I would expect the inspector's response to be something like "that's what bumperposts are for".

We do not have the option of not complying with the code because it is too difficult or inconvenient.
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:41 AM   #11
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I would expect the inspector's response to be something like "that's what bumperposts are for".

We do not have the option of not complying with the code because it is too difficult or inconvenient.
All things considered, technically,the panel would be in the hazardous area had it been classified. Seeing as how it is not, the dispenser is right next to it. It is actually an existing service that a ghost town (ex Air Force base), had a lift station at. Chicken and egg thing. So by rights, the e stop should actually take out the service lateral. Haha. This is why they should hire an engineer to design the crap. They tried to save a buck, and I come there to wire it up, and it's so full of ifs and buts. The dispenser is three feet away from the service...
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:50 AM   #12
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All things considered, technically,the panel would be in the hazardous area had it been classified......... The dispenser is three feet away from the service...
Since the panel is 3' away from the dispenser, unless it is below 18" it would not be in a classified area even if the dispenser was pumping a flammable liquid.

Table 514.3(B)(1)
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:13 AM   #13
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[QUOTE=hardworkingstiff;3894817]Since the panel is 3' away from the dispenser, unless it is below 18" it would not be in a classified area even if the dispenser was pumping a flammable liquid.

Table 514.3(B)(1)[/QUOTE
None of it is classified. Diesel pump only. It would be in the boundary of the hazardous location. I guess another gray area. The e stop is only for circuits going through the dispenser.
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:22 AM   #14
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It is in my opinion that 514 should not matter whatsoever once it becomes an unclassified location. I just wish the code book would clearly state this one way or another. It would save us the not knowing part. It's the dispensing motor fuels part that irritates me.kind of puts diesel into having to deal with some of 514. Not sure the ahj can clear it up in my head. We can argue all day.

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Old 04-30-2017, 09:34 AM   #15
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Did ya ask the state inspector or fire inspector to see what they do cover on that code related to diesel fuel dispensing.,,

I try to read the 514 but are you on 11 or 14 cycle ?
No. I should, you are right. I asked the field manager the number for the inspector after I told him my side of the story, and he said he would call.
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Old 04-30-2017, 12:30 PM   #16
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No. I should, you are right. I asked the field manager the number for the inspector after I told him my side of the story, and he said he would call.
Fair enough on that part and let us know what the results is..

I did check my local codes reguarding on diesel fuel dispending situation and they are muted on that part due it is classifed as low hazard class not like gasoline that will tighten the code a bit.

on diesel island only there is a bit of leeway on that part but if you have both gasoline and diesel the gasoline rules trumps it all.

( dont go there with dammed propane dispending units I went thru two of them this year )
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:02 PM   #17
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It is in my opinion that 514 should not matter whatsoever once it becomes an unclassified location.
I do not understand why you think this. 514 is "Motor Fuel Dispensing Facilities". Wiring in a "classified" location is a subset of this article, not a pre-requirement to this article.

It sounds to me like you just don't want to comply with this article and no one will be able to convince you otherwise. It will be interesting to see what the AHJ says. I hope you share that with us.
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