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Old 07-25-2018, 06:41 PM   #1
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Default Friends and electricians Buss Duct code problem.

Hello friends and electrician,
I am in need of code help to solve a potential problem.
My employer (he is NOT an Electrician) is purchasing buss duct taps and breakers separately.
He is convinced the 20 amp rated buss taps are identical to the 100 amp enclosure. He is requesting I install breakers rated too large for the rating of the enclosure. While I do not want this to be a problem I do not feel this is right and I need a code reference to make a solid argument.

I have been searching 368 and 370 for anything on buss taps.
I can not find anything to address the buss taps themselves.

Uncle Bob
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:05 PM   #2
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If youíre a licensed electrician, youíre putting your license in jeopardy by installing equipment contrary to their UL listing. Iíd refuse to do it on that basis alone. My license supersedes this job in priority. Thumbs up.

If youíre not licensed, then you should ask on the diy forum. As well, youíre endangering your employer and the lives of everyone who works in the building by doing electrical work for him. Thumbs down.
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:12 PM   #3
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Thank you for your reply this is exactly how I feel My license is and my rep are important to me ..... the nameplate rating for these buss taps are 20 amps he wants me to install a 90 amp in two of them ....I will not but I needed a code ref to make a good argument I have searched and can not find one can anyone point me in the correct direction I will search out the answer

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Old 07-25-2018, 07:21 PM   #4
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110.3(b) might be what youíre looking for.

Again, your license is YOURS, not your employerís. You are essentially an autonomous licensed specialist who is selling his labor and expertise to an employer for specific tasks. You are the expert, and you determine what youíre willing to do for this employer and whether it is acceptable. Your license goes with you when you leave - no job is more important than your license.

There have been plenty of times a contractor has told me to do this or that, and itís been against code or sometimes even a grey area. And Iíve said, ďIím not willing to do this against code. Letís discuss another solution which doesnít go against code.Ē Never had a problem.
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:36 PM   #5
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In the wrong chapter. Must be Listed. The manufacturer did not Label the tap with a generic label,

Have you ever seen buss duct blow apart? Itís really bad. It wonít.be 20 or 100 A. It will be whatever the transformer can do dead shorted. Thousands of amps. Then watch how fast the boss gets amnesia when corporate or a fire marshal or OSHA comes knocking. Then as the licensed guy they wonít really care if he has amnesia or not.

Buss duct is bad enough as far as it fails way too often with no good way to inspect. Plus bus cans are notorious for exploding when you put them in live. What you are talking about is doubling down on stupid and Iím guessing your life not his will be plugging in those death traps. Make sure your life insurance is paid up if youíre going to double down on this kind of stupid. No reason to even argue Code.



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Old 07-25-2018, 07:59 PM   #6
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do you have the part numbers for what you are referring to, the manufacturer probably clears this up somewhere
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
240.3 Other Articles. Equipment shall be protected against
overcurrent in accordance with the article in this Code that
covers the type of equipment specified in Table 240.3.
check out 368 Busways, there are several sections (branch ckts, etc) and I guess taps might also apply

this is from 2011, don't have 2014 handy and don't know what code year you are on

in general, all conductors, devices, and equipment have to be protected at or below their rating or ampacity (as you well know). there should be no argument about that from anyone.

see 368.17, C & D and 368.56 in particular

hope that helps

you said you read 368, but 368.17 C seems to apply to your exact situation. the buss plug is a branch ckt tap and needs to be protected at its rating.
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Last edited by wildleg; 07-25-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:40 PM   #8
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This is a transformer feeding buss duct circa 1976
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:44 PM   #9
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I’m learning my way around some buildings and was told to just go explore and find my way around. 17 buildings with basements, sub basements and tunnels under the streets connecting several together.

I’m finding a lot of scary stuff
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Old 07-28-2018, 04:39 AM   #10
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I'm amazed it passed inspection by anyone.
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:05 AM   #11
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Got some brands and model numbers? I can think of at least 2 where the "can" part of the bus plug (and the associated stabs) is the same whether the breaker inside is a 20 amp or a 100 amp. A little more detail might reveal a more meaningful answer and less of "the world's going to end' speak.
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