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Old 03-23-2020, 03:25 PM   #1
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Default Multi Wire Branch Circuits

Residential - multi wire branch circuit

Single phase 4 wire branch circuits that consist of 2 ungrounded conductors, 1 neutral and an EGC that feed two lighting circuits or 2 branch circuits for convince receptacles would require either a common trip breaker or 2 single pole breakers with a handle tie. 210.4(b)

Commercial - multi wire branch circuit

Is there any situation or code requirement that dictates the use of a common trip or “Handle Tie” to be used in commercial or industrial applications where 2 or 3 circuits are feed with a single neutral?

It’s obvious that you would shut off all 3 circuits associated with the neutral if you were working on a 3 phase multi wire branch circuit to avoid getting across the neutral but that’s common sense. I’m just conserved with how the NEC deals with it. So far I find no reference and have never seen it applied to 3 phase circuits that feed lights or plugs either 120v or 277v.
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:40 PM   #2
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It applies to everything, resi and commercial, including 3 phase. You posted the article.

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210.4(B) Disconnecting Means. Each multiwire branch circuit shall be provided with a means that will simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors at the point where the branch circuit originates.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:42 PM   #3
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obvious to you but not ... .
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:37 PM   #4
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It applies to everything, resi and commercial, including 3 phase. You posted the article.
It seems quite clear when you read that but there must be more to this. In commercial and industrial applications I have never seen common trip or "handle ties" on any branch circuits that feed 120 volt plugs or lighting or 277v lighting circuits even on new installations. I guess no one is complying to the rules. 240.15 (B) (1) & (2) seems with confirm this.

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Old 03-23-2020, 06:39 PM   #5
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It seems quite clear when you read that but there must be more to this. In commercial and industrial applications I have never seen common trip or "handle ties" on any branch circuits that feed 120 volt plugs or lighting or 277v lighting circuits even on new installations. I guess no one is complying to the rules. 240.15 (B) (1) & (2) seems to confirm this. Scathing my head?
It is a relatively new change, I believe it was 2008. Maybe that’s why you don’t see the handle ties that often.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:57 PM   #6
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It is a relatively new change, I believe it was 2008. Maybe that’s why you don’t see the handle ties that often.
Yes this is probably why. I'm an old timer and need to keep up with the new rules. Anything that helps with safety is a good thing.
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:11 PM   #7
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Here is a photo of a new panel interior that is being installed by an electrical contractor.
According to the print circuit 14,16 & 18 are designated to feed convenience outlets. I may have a hard time finding a handle tie for these breakers so it might be better to order a 3 pole 20. Thanks again for the help.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:20 PM   #8
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With LED lighting and high speed switching in electronic equipment MWBCs are almost a thing of the past.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:48 PM   #9
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On the siemens P1 panels I have always used a 3 pole breaker. If those are NGB breakers this 3 pole handle tie should work https://www.cesco.com/Siemens-BQDHT3...-Pole/p1960700 but I have not used it before.
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Old 03-24-2020, 12:20 AM   #10
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From a job I did some improvements on during December of last year.

I used a 3 phase load center to feed all the new circuits I installed. The top right hand side has 2 three pole breakers in there to handle two sets of cubicle furniture hookups.

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Old 03-24-2020, 07:08 AM   #11
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Yes this is probably why. I'm an old timer and need to keep up with the new rules. Anything that helps with safety is a good thing.
It was a stupid rule change and helped nothing. That's why the other electrical contractor ignored it.
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:35 AM   #12
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On the siemens P1 panels I have always used a 3 pole breaker. If those are NGB breakers this 3 pole handle tie should work https://www.cesco.com/Siemens-BQDHT3...-Pole/p1960700 but I have not used it before.
Such a deal only $43.00 ....
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:45 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
From a job I did some improvements on during December of last year.

I used a 3 phase load center to feed all the new circuits I installed. The top right hand side has 2 three pole breakers in there to handle two sets of cubicle furniture hookups.

Thanks for the help on this. Your makeup looks real nice in your panelboard. I could see some situations where a handle tie would be better than a common trip breaker. If you had to work on a lighting circuit just pull the handle tie, kill one breaker and then you would not have to go completely dark just to make a repair. Ha Ha... I wonder if they allow circuit breakers that are approved for switching, listed and marked SWD.
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Old 03-24-2020, 11:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Easy View Post
Thanks for the help on this. Your makeup looks real nice in your panelboard. I could see some situations where a handle tie would be better than a common trip breaker. If you had to work on a lighting circuit just pull the handle tie, kill one breaker and then you would not have to go completely dark just to make a repair. Ha Ha... I wonder if they allow circuit breakers that are approved for switching, listed and marked SWD.

My offspring did the panel. I taught him about looping feeders when he first came to work with me, around 6 years ago, and we were working on a real panel that had 350's that day. He volunteered to come help me while he was on a short layoff between projects at his union job. I think he thinks that on my panels I always want a loop. Those feeders are only #4's. I didn't have the heart to tell him not to do that again.............
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoGP1199 View Post
On the siemens P1 panels I have always used a 3 pole breaker. If those are NGB breakers this 3 pole handle tie should work https://www.cesco.com/Siemens-BQDHT3...-Pole/p1960700 but I have not used it before.
Such a deal only $43.00 ....[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.electriciantalk.com/images/smilies/vs_mad.gif[/IMG]
cheaper than a 3 pole breaker but absolutely ridiculous for a single handle tie.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:51 PM   #16
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I still install MWBC's and I don't use multi-pole breakers on them.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:54 PM   #17
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No one should be toying with 3-phase MWBC who is not trained for safety.

Dumming down our trade is not wise.

Handle ties can be created by a 3-D printer.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:56 PM   #18
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I still install MWBC's and I don't use multi-pole breakers on them.
I use handle ties, less that I have to stock.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:59 PM   #19
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I use handle ties, less that I have to stock.
I see.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I use handle ties, less that I have to stock.
What do you do with a/c or 240 appliance circuits?
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