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Old 11-14-2018, 09:16 PM   #1
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Default NMB in conduit

Today I was asked to fix a home inspection for a realtor. When I started looking at all that needed to be done, I realized that some things would pose an issue that was existing. One of the many was two #12-2 romex wires feeding a water heater and ac unit along with the feeder for the sub panel was sleeved in conduit to the main panel outside. Maybe this was allowed back in the day, but knowing that it is a violation, I would have to change for my inspection to pass. I decided to re feed the water heater from the sub panel and re run the ac circuit with THWN in flex to a disconnect to the AC. This would free up the 2" conduit for me to run my SER cable in by itself to the main panel. I ran through several ways of fixing this. Im curious what other would have done.
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:25 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by LLSee View Post
Today I was asked to fix a home inspection for a realtor. When I started looking at all that needed to be done, I realized that some things would pose an issue that was existing. One of the many was two #12-2 romex wires feeding a water heater and ac unit along with the feeder for the sub panel was sleeved in conduit to the main panel outside. Maybe this was allowed back in the day, but knowing that it is a violation, I would have to change for my inspection to pass. I decided to re feed the water heater from the sub panel and re run the ac circuit with THWN in flex to a disconnect to the AC. This would free up the 2" conduit for me to run my SER cable in by itself to the main panel. I ran through several ways of fixing this. Im curious what other would have done.
What makes you think sleeving romex is a violation? And which article is it violating?
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:30 AM   #3
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@HackWork. Well I am going off Romex not being allowed in a wet location. Am I wrong in this? Believe me, I would love to leave it in there. Also having to derate the wires since there would be 6 current carrying conductors.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:34 AM   #4
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@HackWork. Well I am going off Romex not being allowed in a wet location. Am I wrong in this? Believe me, I would love to leave it in there.
You are correct about romex being prohibited in conduit outdoors.

The pipe is running outside? Or it goes into the back of a panel which is mounted facing outwards on an outside wall?

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Also having to derate the wires since there would be 6 current carrying conductors.
It's a sleeve, not a raceway. No derating.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:40 AM   #5
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Thanks for the reply @HackWork The pipe is outside. Runs into the top of a main service panel.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:42 AM   #6
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Thanks for the reply @HackWork The pipe is outside. Runs into the top of a main service panel.
I see. Looks like you did what you had to. One other possibility would have been switching to UF cable for the part that is outdoors.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:59 AM   #7
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What’s NMB?
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:03 AM   #8
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Whats NMB?
Romex.

NM-B = Non-Metallic type B.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:03 AM   #9
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Good old autocorrect. Good catch @99cents
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:15 AM   #10
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The thing that caught my attention is #12 wire to the water heater. That should be #10.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:18 AM   #11
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@Wiredindallas Exactly. Whoever did this before had a 50 amp breaker on number 10 wire. They had all kinds of things going wrong
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:43 AM   #12
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@Wiredindallas Exactly. Whoever did this before had a 50 amp breaker on number 10 wire. They had all kinds of things going wrong
Was the number 12 wire on a 30 amp breaker or 20 amp??

Was the number 10 wire on a 50 amp breaker powering an air-conditioner? That may be compliant.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:45 AM   #13
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@hackeork The number 12 wire was on a 30 amp breaker feeding a water heater in the 50 amp breaker was on number 10 wire feeding a range.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:45 AM   #14
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@hackeork The number 12 wire was on a 30 amp breaker feeding a water heater in the 50 amp breaker was on number 10 wire feeding a range.
LOL, replaced it all! And charge a lot of money!
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:47 AM   #15
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That’s exactly what I’m doing Lol
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Old 11-22-2018, 12:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLSee View Post
@HackWork. Well I am going off Romex not being allowed in a wet location. Am I wrong in this? Believe me, I would love to leave it in there.
You are correct about romex being prohibited in conduit outdoors.

The pipe is running outside? Or it goes into the back of a panel which is mounted facing outwards on an outside wall?

Quote:
Also having to derate the wires since there would be 6 current carrying conductors.
It's a sleeve, not a raceway. No derating.
....does the code differentiate between a conduit sleeve and a raceway, or is he still limited to the 24" in 310.15 (B)(2)?
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Old 11-22-2018, 12:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLSee View Post
Today I was asked to fix a home inspection for a realtor. When I started looking at all that needed to be done, I realized that some things would pose an issue that was existing. One of the many was two #12-2 romex wires feeding a water heater and ac unit along with the feeder for the sub panel was sleeved in conduit to the main panel outside. Maybe this was allowed back in the day, but knowing that it is a violation, I would have to change for my inspection to pass. I decided to re feed the water heater from the sub panel and re run the ac circuit with THWN in flex to a disconnect to the AC. This would free up the 2" conduit for me to run my SER cable in by itself to the main panel. I ran through several ways of fixing this. Im curious what other would have done.

There is a technical violation in the wording of your post. I'm sure you ran liquid tight flexible conduit and not "Greenfield flex". So I bother with these type of things so that apprentices and a few New Yorker's won't read it and think " hey, it sounds like it's ok to use flex conduit outside from what I read at ET...."
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Old 11-24-2018, 11:58 PM   #18
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There is a technical violation in the wording of your post. I'm sure you ran liquid tight flexible conduit and not "Greenfield flex". So I bother with these type of things so that apprentices and a few New Yorker's won't read it and think " hey, it sounds like it's ok to use flex conduit outside from what I read at ET...."
Thanks for clearing that up mike, phewww
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:22 AM   #19
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@HackWork. Well I am going off Romex not being allowed in a wet location. Am I wrong in this? Believe me, I would love to leave it in there. Also having to derate the wires since there would be 6 current carrying conductors.
The interior of a conduit in the wet location also being a wet location did not come about until 2008 IIRC.
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:24 AM   #20
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....does the code differentiate between a conduit sleeve and a raceway, or is he still limited to the 24" in 310.15 (B)(2)?
Romex beings limited to 60c ampacity does have 90c rated conductors and derates comes off the 90c column so he should be fine.
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