Outside 30 Amp Breaker 20 Amp Duplex Receptacle - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > NEC Code Forum


Like Tree15Likes
  • 1 Post By Dennis Alwon
  • 7 Post By Forge Boyz
  • 1 Post By HackWork
  • 2 Post By Forge Boyz
  • 3 Post By MTW
  • 1 Post By Jlarson
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-04-2019, 03:10 PM   #1
AWW
Junior Member
 
AWW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: AL
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 42
Unhappy Outside 30 Amp Breaker 20 Amp Duplex Receptacle

I'm a retired Industrial Electrician.
I was asked to check a non-working outside receptacle at my church that someone at the church installed about a month ago. The reason it wasn't working was because the neutral wire for the receptacle was landed on the neutral bus instead of the neutral-load-screw on the GFCI CB. And a neutral from a different outside receptacle WAS landed on the neutral-load-screw of the 30a GFCI CB. It apparently never worked as the GFCI CB will not turn on in this condition; it trips instantly. [Who wired this? ] I'm still trying to figure out how all that happened.

Now the reason I'm posting is this; I also found this circuit has a single 120 volt, 20 amp duplex-receptacle fed with 10 AWG protected by the 30 amp GFCI CB.

The intended loads are two cord and plug connected fan's for inflating those big jumpy-house / water-slide type outdoor attractions. I haven't received the information on the motor load's yet but...

I interpret Table 210-21(B)(3) to mean when you have receptacle fed by 10 AWG protected by a 30a CB the receptacle is supposed to rated at 30a. Meaning a 20a single or duplex receptacle is not allowed.

I believe the solution would require changing the receptacle to a 30a single outlet (which won't allow the fan's to plug in) or change the circuit breaker to a 20a GFCI and add another circuit for the second motor if needed. Again I don't know the exact load yet, I'm waiting on someone to send me a picture of the motor label and plug type.

Am I correct or is there something that allows this that I've missed?
AWW is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-04-2019, 03:49 PM   #2
Moderator

 
Dennis Alwon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 21,281
Rewards Points: 1,546
Default

You are correct. I would change the breaker to a 20 amp. If the receptacles that are outside already have gfci receptacles then no need for a 20 amp gfci breaker just a 20 amp breaker.
micromind likes this.
__________________
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
I can't help it if I'm lucky
Dennis Alwon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 07:32 PM   #3
AWW
Junior Member
 
AWW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: AL
Posts: 21
Rewards Points: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
You are correct. I would change the breaker to a 20 amp. If the receptacles that are outside already have gfci receptacles then no need for a 20 amp gfci breaker just a 20 amp breaker.
Thank you Dennis! Since my first post I learned that the fan's are 12a each so I will changed the breaker to a 20a and run another 20a circuit because we have two fan's that need to run at the same time (12a each).
AWW is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-04-2019, 07:38 PM   #4
Mensa Player
 
HackWork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: -
Posts: 34,633
Rewards Points: 447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWW View Post
I'm a retired Industrial Electrician.
I was asked to check a non-working outside receptacle at my church that someone at the church installed about a month ago.
This is where we were hoping you would go on to say that you referred them to a licensed, insured, and legitimate electrical contractor.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HackWork is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 07:58 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 703
Rewards Points: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
This is where we were hoping you would go on to say that you referred them to a licensed, insured, and legitimate electrical contractor.
So you are saying that once you retire you lose all your knowledge? Can't a guy volunteer at his church? He correctly identified the problem, he just came here to make sure he was on the right track. It's not Harry homeowner who doesn't have a clue.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Forge Boyz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 08:16 PM   #6
Mensa Player
 
HackWork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: -
Posts: 34,633
Rewards Points: 447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forge Boyz View Post
So you are saying that once you retire you lose all your knowledge?
What does knowledge have to do with my statement?
Quote:
Can't a guy volunteer at his church?
No, he can't when it comes to this. And he shouldn't be.
Quote:
He correctly identified the problem, he just came here to make sure he was on the right track. It's not Harry homeowner who doesn't have a clue.
The only reason why the church has this problem in the first place is because they spent too much money on stone work and golden chalices, and nothing on electrical work when they brought in the last unlicensed, uninsured, and illegitimate electrician.

It's funny that when I say I break the most mundane and insignificant code everyone is all by-the-book with me. But when I suggest that the electrical work performed on a place of public accommodation of possibly hundreds of people should done by a legitimate contractor with a license and insurance I am now wrong.
CTshockhazard likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HackWork is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 08:56 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 703
Rewards Points: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
What does knowledge have to do with my statement?

No, he can't when it comes to this. And he shouldn't be.

The only reason why the church has this problem in the first place is because they spent too much money on stone work and golden chalices, and nothing on electrical work when they brought in the last unlicensed, uninsured, and illegitimate electrician.



It's funny that when I say I break the most mundane and insignificant code everyone is all by-the-book with me. But when I suggest that the electrical work performed on a place of public accommodation of possibly hundreds of people should done by a legitimate contractor with a license and insurance I am now wrong.
Knowledge has to do with the fact that he is qualified and capable to do the job correctly. To me that is the biggest issue. He's been in the field for years. How is this any different than an EC's employee who doesn't have his master's showing up to work on it? He knew what to do, it's just not an area he worked with much in his job. How is this different from lots of the rest of us that get outside of our usual work and come here to ask questions?
For every Joel Osteen type mega church that are simply moneymaking schemes, there are a hundred small community churches operating on a shoestring budget. Whether or not you believe they are right, they still do a lot of good in their community. Of course they are glad for volunteer help. Why not use your skills for your church? There are lots of other nonreligious places that use volunteer help. Should all eletricians refuse to do charity work for them?



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
micromind and MTW like this.
Forge Boyz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 09:06 PM   #8
MTW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 15,196
Rewards Points: 9,560
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
It's funny that when I say I break the most mundane and insignificant code everyone is all by-the-book with me. But when I suggest that the electrical work performed on a place of public accommodation of possibly hundreds of people should done by a legitimate contractor with a license and insurance I am now wrong.
A license is a permission slip from the government that allows you to make your living. It says nothing about ones abilities or qualifications.
micromind, AWW and 460 Delta like this.
MTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2019, 08:36 AM   #9
Sentimental Mental
 
CTshockhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 1,006
Rewards Points: 1,496
Default

Well, maybe churches on a shoestring budget should'nt be concerned with providing cord and plug connected fan's for inflating those big jumpy-house / water-slide type outdoor attractions.
__________________
.
__________________________________________________

Just to be absolutely clear...
I didn't say anything about nothing to nobody.
CTshockhazard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2019, 09:07 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Jlarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,175
Rewards Points: 4,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTshockhazard View Post
Well, maybe churches on a shoestring budget should'nt be concerned with providing cord and plug connected fan's for inflating those big jumpy-house / water-slide type outdoor attractions.

Hey man, Jesus was a huge fan of bounce houses.
CTshockhazard likes this.
__________________
Everything has user serviceable parts inside.
Jlarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
30 amp branch circuit, gfci., individual receptacle

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com