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Old 03-16-2016, 12:31 AM   #1
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Default Is this overkill?

Typical tract housing that I'm seeing in Florida has the following:

-Dedicated 20 amp circuits for:

Dishwasher
Disposal
Fridge
Microwave
Gas Dryer
Washer

-Code required circuit for counter tops, usually split between the island and counter top.

-Separate 20 amp circuit for dining room with required AFCI.

This all seems like total overkill to me.

Usually I run all the kitchen appliances with dedicated 15 amp circuits with the rest being the code required 20 for the countertop and dining room. Sometimes I combine the dining room with the kitchen since the DR circuit never has any load on it anyway. I always run one 20 amp circuit for laundry even with a gas dryer and have never had a problem doing that.
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:33 AM   #2
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West coast or east coast?
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:49 AM   #3
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of course it's overkill, but if that's what they are paying for, who cares ?

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Old 03-16-2016, 09:08 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by wildleg View Post
of course it's overkill, but if that's what they are paying for, who cares ?

Fair enough.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
West coast or east coast?
Southwest FL right on the gulf.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:52 AM   #6
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That's pretty much how I wired my own house, and that's what I would sell to every customer, with the disclosure that it is well above the code.
There is a certain contingent of customers out there that happily take the extra features and are just as happy to pay the premium for them.
A great business opportunity if you ask me.
I sell MC or AC over NM to them while I'm at it, while marking up the extra labor and the higher material cost proportionally.
You have to realize (and most of us here probably do) that a lot of sales and service are also about the good feeling of extra reassurance or security that come with the premium products or extra features, whether or not there will ever be an actual need for those features.
Kind of why people like paying for an off-road quality SUV while living in well-paved suburbs. That SUV will probably never see any offroad use, but the buyer gets a warm and fuzzy feeling that **if** they ever wanted to, they could..
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Old 03-16-2016, 10:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Nutmegger777 View Post
That's pretty much how I wired my own house, and that's what I would sell to every customer, with the disclosure that it is well above the code.
There is a certain contingent of customers out there that happily take the extra features and are just as happy to pay the premium for them.
A great business opportunity if you ask me.
I sell MC or AC over NM to them while I'm at it, while marking up the extra labor and the higher material cost proportionally.
You have to realize (and most of us here probably do) that a lot of sales and service are also about the good feeling of extra reassurance or security that come with the premium products or extra features, whether or not there will ever be an actual need for those features.
Kind of why people like paying for an off-road quality SUV while living in well-paved suburbs. That SUV will probably never see any offroad use, but the buyer gets a warm and fuzzy feeling that **if** they ever wanted to, they could..
That's all well and good but this is the tract market we're talking about.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:32 AM   #8
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That's all well and good but this is the tract market we're talking about.
Yeah, missed that part. I live and work in Fairfield County, CT, where median house price in many towns is over 1 mil., so we all live in a bubble here.
Not happy about that.
My own 800 sq. ft house is 250K
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:38 AM   #9
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Southwest FL right on the gulf.

Ok , I thought so. Back in the ancient times when I worked there it was such that inspectors ruled with iron fists, and you had to do it their way or no pass. One guy in the area would flunk any rough in if the electricians hadn't swept the floors properly prior to calling for rough in inspection. And just to code didn't satisfy them.
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Old 03-16-2016, 01:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
Ok , I thought so. Back in the ancient times when I worked there it was such that inspectors ruled with iron fists, and you had to do it their way or no pass. One guy in the area would flunk any rough in if the electricians hadn't swept the floors properly prior to calling for rough in inspection. And just to code didn't satisfy them.
Apparently that old way still lives on, every house I have looked at in the area, new or old, is wired way above what the NEC requires. I've never seen houses with so many underused 20 amp circuits.
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:53 PM   #11
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We just wired a remodel with seven circuits in the kitchen; 15 a disposal, 15a dishwasher, 20 a microwave, three small appliance 20a and a 15 a lights but it was a 1850's house with nearly half a million already sunk in the remodel

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Old 03-16-2016, 07:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MTW View Post
Typical tract housing that I'm seeing in Florida has the following:

-Dedicated 20 amp circuits for:

Dishwasher
Disposal
Fridge
Microwave
Gas Dryer
Washer

-Code required circuit for counter tops, usually split between the island and counter top.

-Separate 20 amp circuit for dining room with required AFCI.

This all seems like total overkill to me.

Usually I run all the kitchen appliances with dedicated 15 amp circuits with the rest being the code required 20 for the countertop and dining room. Sometimes I combine the dining room with the kitchen since the DR circuit never has any load on it anyway. I always run one 20 amp circuit for laundry even with a gas dryer and have never had a problem doing that.
I always laugh a bit when people think how much better they are by running all 20 amp circuits to an appliance that draws 5 amps. When it comes to real facts they would be way better off running a 15 amp circuit to protect these types of appliances.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutmegger777 View Post
That's pretty much how I wired my own house, and that's what I would sell to every customer, with the disclosure that it is well above the code.
There is a certain contingent of customers out there that happily take the extra features and are just as happy to pay the premium for them.
A great business opportunity if you ask me.
I sell MC or AC over NM to them while I'm at it, while marking up the extra labor and the higher material cost proportionally.
You have to realize (and most of us here probably do) that a lot of sales and service are also about the good feeling of extra reassurance or security that come with the premium products or extra features, whether or not there will ever be an actual need for those features.
Kind of why people like paying for an off-road quality SUV while living in well-paved suburbs. That SUV will probably never see any offroad use, but the buyer gets a warm and fuzzy feeling that **if** they ever wanted to, they could..
If I was building a house and you tried to talk me into MC over NM I would fire you and maybe even turn you into the local BBB.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:45 PM   #14
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Are you living in Florida now or visiting?
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:20 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by sbrn33 View Post
If I was building a house and you tried to talk me into MC over NM I would fire you and maybe even turn you into the local BBB.
I killed and ate a car dealer for trying to charge me for undercoating.
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:22 PM   #16
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I killed and ate a car dealer for trying to charge me for undercoating.
Those guys are all gristle.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:29 PM   #17
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Are you living in Florida now or visiting?
Visiting, my parents own a house here now. Been here for 3 weeks.

I had planned to move, but I can't stomach the pay cut I would have to take in Florida. Starting pay for a journeyman with experience, $16 an hour.

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Old 03-16-2016, 09:31 PM   #18
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I always laugh a bit when people think how much better they are by running all 20 amp circuits to an appliance that draws 5 amps. When it comes to real facts they would be way better off running a 15 amp circuit to protect these types of appliances.
I couldn't agree more. It's funny how they run a separate 20 amp circuit for a dishwasher and disposal, then plug a 16 gauge appliance cord into the receptacle.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:35 PM   #19
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I couldn't agree more. It's funny how they run a separate 20 amp circuit for a dishwasher and disposal, then plug a 16 gauge appliance cord into the receptacle.
I've got both my DW and disposal on a SINGLE 20amp circuit.


























Cue reply of "Cool story bro" in 3, 2, 1...................
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:42 PM   #20
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I've got both my DW and disposal on a SINGLE 20amp circuit.
Cue reply of "Cool story bro" in 3, 2, 1...................
Sorry to disappoint you this time but no "cool story bro" for that one, I think that's better than separate 20's for each. Truthfully, that's how I would do it with the new AFCI/GFCI rules for all the kitchen stuff, the additional cost of the #12 is saved by not running two separate 15's to each appliance and an AFCI/GFCI combo breaker for each one.
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