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Old 09-28-2010, 08:14 AM   #81
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this thread is over a year old.


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Old 09-28-2010, 12:48 PM   #82
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Every jobsite I have worked on so far has used 277v for its lighting circuits. For that we have used pink colored wire for the switchlegs and purple for travellers on 3 ways with pink being the switchleg. Just this last week I was working on a job where the lighting was 120v and was pulling wire for both power and lighting. Well, I grabbed a roll of pink and a couple rolls of purple for switch legs and travellers. After pulling in a couple of switches, the journeyman stopped me and told me that for 120v we use orange for the switchleg and made me re-pull all the pink I pulled in. That night in the hotel room I spent at least 3 hours looking in the code book trying to find anything that requires certain colors to identify the switch leg and the differences between 120v and 277v switch leg colors.

Does such a thing exist?

Thanks
do the same as you, feed runs are blue, black , red, sw. legs and travelers are pink, purple, orange. That was definetly the personal preference of the foreman. It's great to see someone else on the same level.
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:12 PM   #83
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...Now all they have to do is add a "210.5(D)" which would put in place a standardized color coding system

120/208v black, red, blue,
277/480v Brown, orange, yellow
yea I know, it's a 'design issue,' in my view it lacks common sense not to
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:45 PM   #84
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yes.

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Old 02-01-2012, 08:26 PM   #85
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I know this thread is beyond old but found it when I was searching online. The good old switch leg debate never dies. I know you can run a white to the switch and feed light with black when running MC.

But with 210.5(C)(1) it reads to me that you must maintain the color or other means used to identify the phase without change. "shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points". If you open a panel and see that they are using B P Y for 277/480 you expect that means of color identification to be maintained. It just seems far safer to keep the same means of phasing all through the building.

Got into it with a guy at the job site he was pulling 277 ckt 3 down to switch but coming back up with yellow as switch leg. Seeing as we had multiple ckts in the pipe we had several phase to phase faults. There needs to be a standard set as it seems everyone has their own way of doing it and inspectors are no different. I have seen several jobs were the inspector wanted the same means of phasing all the way through. But as of to date I have never had one tell me to pull all my switch legs out that match the hot in color+marked switch leg and pull in a blue or a red in its place. I always use the correct phase color as switch leg but marked it S3 for example (switch leg 3).

Last edited by cbr; 02-01-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:59 AM   #86
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There's no official, or even 'trade practice,' that carrys much weight when it comes to color codes.

I also like using a different color for the travelers. Switch legs I'm not so worried about - but then, I prefer to not have the 'power' and 'switch' wires in the same boxes. Power box => switch boxes => fixture is my preferred layout. Since fixtures often come with whips, you're pretty much stuck with black for the switch leg anyway.

With the 'energy' codes often requiring two levels of lighting in commercial rooms, I like to use a different 'traveler' color for each switch. That way, I can easily change the lighting arrangement if the customer wishes.

Another variation is identifying travellers by the phase / leg they're on. In that circumstance, I'll associate purple with the blue phase and pink with the red. Gray, you'll remember, is a neutral color, so we can't use it. Maybe they'll come out with teal .
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:42 PM   #87
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I just cant see any reason to pull a different color for a switch leg, get you a book of letters and label it "S12" or something similar. NEC does not state that switch legs need to a different color or even labeled. But it does state that all ungrounded conductors must be identified by phase and system at every point.

We can all agree that the switch leg is an ungrounded conductor, a connection/termination is made at the switch and light so that would fall under 210.5. If you are using B R B low and B P Y high those colors have already been used to identify a system and phase. So I just dont see how you could use blue for a 277v switch leg as blue is being used for low voltage C phase.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:20 PM   #88
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I would be fired mixing 277 and 120 colors!

120/208/240
Black red blue with the circuit number for hot leg then black red blue with a stripe of electric tape. if there are multiple switches then multiple stripes of tape.

277/480 is the same thing.

Now for travelers, the supervisor picks at the beginning of the job and it's usually one phase color up. Ex. Circuit 1 would have red/orange travelers.

One hospital job I worked it's was spec'd out that travelers were pulled in purple
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:53 AM   #89
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My jurisdiction has a code admendment that states that on 120/208/240 volt circuits you can only use Black,Red, Blue, White. For 277 / 480 volt circuits you must use Brown, Orange ,Yellow, Gray.
No pinks, No purples, No mixing the colors between voltages
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:04 PM   #90
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I'm with Bob Badger on this one. The inspector around my parts says that same color its entire length: including travelers and switch legs.
Some local inspectors (including a famous "Tosa one) required manufactured fixture whips to be the same color as the phase conductor. So we always ordered B.O.Y. whips and yanked out the unneeded conductors. Alot of scrap for the "safety meeting fund"
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:57 PM   #91
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Well if I open a box and see an orange conductor how do I know which system it is?



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Old 02-08-2012, 09:09 PM   #92
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:05 PM   #93
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We just pipe our systems separately and mark the J-boxes with what voltage/circuit is inside. Switch leg colors vary but you can easily tell the voltage by the marking on the box or just look at the color of the grounded conductor, White=120v Gray=277v
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:41 AM   #94
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It really seems that everyone does it different, but reading 210.5 it clearly states that you must identify for phase and system at every connection. If you were to pull a different color for your switch leg you are no longer identifying for phase system only switch leg. I still dont see why so many go to such great lengths to identify the switch leg such as pulling a totally different color wire. All you have to do is flag it with some tape or use some wire markers.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:14 PM   #95
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I think the NECPlus says it nicely:

"The requirement in 210.5(C) to identify ungrounded branch-circuit conductors covers all branch-circuit configurations and is not applicable to only multiwire circuits. The identification requirement applies only to those premises that have more than one nominal voltage system supplying branch circuits (e.g., a 208Y/120-volt system and a 480Y/277-volt system) and requires that the conductors be identified by system and phase. Unlike the requirement of 200.6(D) for identifying the grounded conductors supplied from different voltage systems, application of this rule is not predicated on the different system conductors sharing a common raceway, cabinet, or enclosure.
The method of identification can be unique to the premises, and although color coding is a popular method, other types of marking or tagging are acceptable alternatives. It is intended that whatever method of identification is used, it be consistent throughout the premises. To that end, the identification legend is required to be posted at each branch-circuit panelboard or other equipment from which branch circuits are supplied or it is permitted to be documented in an on-site manual, log, or other form of record that is readily available to service personnel. Where posted at electrical distribution equipment, the marking required by this section only has to describe the identification scheme for the ungrounded conductors supplied from that particular equipment. The basis for this requirement is to provide a higher level of safety for personnel working on premises electrical systems having ungrounded conductors supplied from multiple nominal voltage systems.
Exhibit 210.3 shows an example of two different nominal voltage systems in a building. Each ungrounded system conductor is identified by color-coded marking tape. A label indicating the means of the identification is permanently located at each panelboard.

Exhibit 210.3 Examples of accessible (ungrounded) phase conductors identified by marking tape at a junction or outlet location where the conductors will be spliced or terminated.

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Old 07-10-2019, 05:36 PM   #96
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Guess it's time to raise this topic from the grave.

I do have another question that has come up more often as newer lighting systems are taking hold. How are guys typically worrying up 277v fixtures that use 0-10v dimmers?

I have always been in the 'dont mix' camp for BRB and OBY. I also don't mix neutral colors (wht vs gry). With 0-10V dimmers, you've now got the "industry standard" of purple and gray for the dimming signal, causing conflict with the gray neutral. Would you rather use a white for neutral from switch location to fixture, keeping the gray and purple for the control wires, or keep gray on both and just tag the low voltage wires?

It's even more confusing if you come across a building to be retrofitted that used purple for switched legs (I believe in keeping phase colors constant past switches etc, and if necessary, tagging switched legs and travellers).
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:59 PM   #97
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Guess it's time to raise this topic from the grave.

I do have another question that has come up more often as newer lighting systems are taking hold. How are guys typically worrying up 277v fixtures that use 0-10v dimmers?

I have always been in the 'dont mix' camp for BRB and OBY. I also don't mix neutral colors (wht vs gry). With 0-10V dimmers, you've now got the "industry standard" of purple and gray for the dimming signal, causing conflict with the gray neutral. Would you rather use a white for neutral from switch location to fixture, keeping the gray and purple for the control wires, or keep gray on both and just tag the low voltage wires?

It's even more confusing if you come across a building to be retrofitted that used purple for switched legs (I believe in keeping phase colors constant past switches etc, and if necessary, tagging switched legs and travellers).

First of all, welcome aboard @CraziFuzzy!

Secondly, rather than making this a 'Lazarus' thread why not just start a new one on your question?
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:20 PM   #98
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First of all, welcome aboard @CraziFuzzy!

Secondly, rather than making this a 'Lazarus' thread why not just start a new one on your question?
Honestly, because a search on the good ol internet's brought me to this thread to begin with.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:27 PM   #99
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I always use whatever the phase color is for switch legs. An odd color, purple or pink is nice for travelers. this is unless there are specific specs or local rules calling for some other method.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:35 PM   #100
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If I'm running it in pipe, I usually run the dimming wires as 2-conductor fire alarm cable, so there is never any confusion what's what. In cable I use the "luminary" cable that has 2 #12 conductors + ground and 2 #16 conductors (separately jacketed) all in one.

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