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Old 05-21-2018, 11:05 AM   #21
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I use ELV dimmers all the time.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeboElectric View Post
I use ELV dimmers all the time.
ELV is different from 0-10 volt

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Old 05-21-2018, 06:58 PM   #23
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We had a development.
The old fixtures were on two separate fluorescent dimmers.
I remember those needing a "trigger" wire to each ballast.
Lo and behold if there wasn't two nice wires running half way and one wire the rest of the way.
The guys pulled in what they needed and now my only concern is running that 0-10v control wires in the same conduit ans the 120volt.

We have about 550 watts on the whole circuit, 16 fixtures planned on one dimmer.

The GC is going to pay us for the remediation on the 36 fixtures we installed without the 0-10v circuit
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:03 PM   #24
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Southeast Power I'm confused by what you said.

As for the 0-10volt lines in the 120 volt pipe as long as the insulation is rated for the highest voltage I don't see a problem (e.g.. you're using THHN for the 120 lines, use THHN for the 0-10 volt lines.
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Originally Posted by Southeast Power View Post
We had a development.
The old fixtures were on two separate fluorescent dimmers.
I remember those needing a "trigger" wire to each ballast.
Lo and behold if there wasn't two nice wires running half way and one wire the rest of the way.
The guys pulled in what they needed and now my only concern is running that 0-10v control wires in the same conduit ans the 120volt.

We have about 550 watts on the whole circuit, 16 fixtures planned on one dimmer.

The GC is going to pay us for the remediation on the 36 fixtures we installed without the 0-10v circuit
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Southeast Power I'm confused by what you said.

As for the 0-10volt lines in the 120 volt pipe as long as the insulation is rated for the highest voltage I don't see a problem (e.g.. you're using THHN for the 120 lines, use THHN for the 0-10 volt lines.

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Much thanks.
I wasnt sure if there could be an induced voltage or noise issue
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:38 PM   #26
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MC LED is the trick.. but a bear to fit in double barrels. Sometimes any of the Arlington MC connectors.

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Old 05-21-2018, 09:44 PM   #27
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Much thanks.
I wasnt sure if there could be an induced voltage or noise issue
I'm not sure about the induced voltage (I mean the wires are in the same enclosure as the line voltage in the wiring housing on the fixture.)

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Old 05-21-2018, 09:45 PM   #28
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MC LED is the trick.. but a bear to fit in double barrels. Sometimes any of the Arlington MC connectors.

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Distributor was pushing it hard.
It just wasnt for our project.
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Old 05-22-2018, 05:37 AM   #29
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The induced voltage could be a problem, that's why the MC with the 0-10V has the low voltage pair twisted.

I realize that there's no problem with the lower voltage in the conduit as long as all the insulation is higher than the highest voltage in there. However I thought the problem was the class 2 circuit has to be separated by either a barrier built in the box, or a nonconductive jacket, and they have to be secured in the box so they are separated. Evidently the jacket on the 0-10V pair satisfies the requirement with the MC with the dimming pair. Without that jacket, I have used a piece of carflex in the box to satisfy the requirement.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:22 AM   #30
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UL specifies a minimum 18 gauge so in a fault the wire lasts long enough to trigger a breaker. Thatís why a lot of instrument cables and CAT 5 must be isolated. I can get 600 V CAT 5 AWM which is used in networked MCCs and I can strap it to 500 MCM but itís not legal because of the #24 wire outside the MCC. Itís also Listed as PLTC. So you could run this stuff or ITC which is outright shielded. So you can follow the NEC low voltage rules too where you ignore chapters 1-3 except where it specifically calls for it.




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Old 05-29-2018, 01:32 AM   #31
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some fixtures are capable of both line dimming and 0-10v dimming, but check the specs first. also ive seen some led pot lights that the instructions said 0-10v dimming but the sales rep and manufacture swore they could do either.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:18 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Essiambre View Post
I'm not sure about the induced voltage (I mean the wires are in the same enclosure as the line voltage in the wiring housing on the fixture.)

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The setup we used, taking over the old fluorescent trigger dimming wire worked out flawlessly. The customer was very happy and the dimming was very smooth and dimmed down very low.
Very happy with it.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:05 PM   #33
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I used the MC luminary cable from AFC cable systems on a job in the city last year. Cant beat it. Just know to get your connectors for jbox termination when you get your wire...i ran into the supply house stocking the wire but needing to order the approved connectors setting me back a day or two.
They also have a multizone luminary cable in many different combinations aloowing you to run up to 3 switch legs and 3 control in one cable,
277, 208, 12-2-2,12-3 etc
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southeast Power View Post
Is it just impossible to dim fixtures with 0-10v option with just a line voltage dimmer?
I have a whole bunch of owner supplied fixtures shot to a ceiling with my beloved Hilti BX and they now need to dim them.
I did find a wireless Lutron module that I can put into the end of each fixture and control them with a PICO remote.
It believe the PICOs can control up to nine of those at a time.

If someone has had a similar problem and found a solution, I could seriously us some help.
No it's not possible. I had a similar problem but on a much smaller scale. owner decided they wanted their newly installed troffers dimmed. I looked into the Lutron powpak but really expensive here and took a few weeks to get.
I ended up using a Lutron DVSTV 0-10V dimmer switch. I had to fish LV cable to the switch though.
The DVSTV can control up to 25 2x4 fixtures and they do not need to be on the same circuit.

If I remember correctly the higher end Powpak can control 60mA of LV dimming drivers. Again, if I remember correctly, standard for a 2x4 led fixture driver is 2mA each so one can essentially control 30 fixture via one PowPak.

Your best bet is to ask on the Lutron forums https://forums.lutron.com/forum.php
There is in fact a Lutron device which receives line voltage dimming and outputs 0-10v. Architects wanted a 3 way dimming setup with Diva slide switches and the same 0-10v lights as the rest of the floor, it took me almost 2 months and a lot of time with Lutron support to convince them that what they wanted was flat impossible but I could get them 95% of what they wanted for a ridiculous amount of extra money.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:59 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Essiambre View Post
Southeast Power I'm confused by what you said.

As for the 0-10volt lines in the 120 volt pipe as long as the insulation is rated for the highest voltage I don't see a problem (e.g.. you're using THHN for the 120 lines, use THHN for the 0-10 volt lines.

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The power supply would have to be relabeled as a Class 1 power supply also per 725.130 Ex. No. 2 and 725.124.

(A) Class 1 Wiring Methods and Materials. Installation shall
be in accordance with 725.46.

Exception No. 2: Class 2 and Class 3 circuits shall be permitted to be
reclassified and installed as Class 1 circuits if the Class 2 and
Class 3 markings required in 725.124 are eliminated and the entire
circuit is installed using the wiring methods and materials in accordance
with Part II, Class 1 circuits.
Informational Note: Class 2 and Class 3 circuits reclassified and
installed as Class 1 circuits are no longer Class 2 or Class 3
circuits, regardless of the continued connection to a Class 2 or
Class 3 power source.

725.124 Circuit Marking. The equipment supplying the
circuits shall be durably marked where plainly visible to indicate
each circuit that is a Class 2 or Class 3 circuit.
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