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Old 07-17-2020, 09:24 AM   #1
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Default Common panel/meter

Designing an older 2 family home service upgrade.

Just wondering if we need to add a third meter and common panel. It’s an older home with 2 spiral staircase common areas. It would be a nightmare to break these items out so I’d like to avoid it. Just wondering what the guidelines are regarding this.


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Old 07-17-2020, 09:44 AM   #2
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See NEC 210.25 (B)

The lighting you mention , any common are smoke alarms, outdoor lighting (if its a common yard etc.) would need to be separately metered.
Used to get away with "owner occupied" but not so much anymore.

Meter will need a bypass.
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:23 PM   #3
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Probably inquire with the power utility first.

Around here, nowadays, getting an extra meter to a resi building or property after-the-fact is next to impossible.
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Old 07-17-2020, 05:21 PM   #4
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I will check with town and utility.

This service needs a serious redesign. The outside is a tricky mess. Supposedly, the first 2 guys he called walked away. Panels will also need to move 15’. They are currently completely surrounded by plumbing and gas.

While on another call today, semi-temping a service for new vinyl siding for an out of state company mentioned where they are from they don’t allow J channel around a service.


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Old 07-17-2020, 09:46 PM   #5
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I just did a service the other day on the inspector's day off
2 family with no main outside. Meter socket 3' away from gas meters. Overhead connections can be reached from a 6' ladder on the 2nd floor deck.
Virtually impossible to be compliant for any reasonable amount of money there. It would have to have a stupid high mast or underground.

Lady just wanted her rusty service replaced. I disclaimered myself out of code upgrades and permit fees and just put back the same 2 meter outside service she had with new stuff.
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Old 07-17-2020, 10:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
I just did a service the other day on the inspector's day off
2 family with no main outside. Meter socket 3' away from gas meters. Overhead connections can be reached from a 6' ladder on the 2nd floor deck.
Virtually impossible to be compliant for any reasonable amount of money there. It would have to have a stupid high mast or underground.

Lady just wanted her rusty service replaced. I disclaimered myself out of code upgrades and permit fees and just put back the same 2 meter outside service she had with new stuff.
Budgets often determine what's at all practical.
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Old 07-18-2020, 12:04 AM   #7
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Virtually impossible to be compliant for any reasonable amount of money there. It would have to have a stupid high mast.
Oh, so a mast like this... i laugh every time I see it.
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:56 AM   #8
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Default Common panel/meter

Does anyone see a problem with me keeping the current riser configuration?

It looks horrible IMO, but I’m limited with options here. My only change would be to try to get more supports and face the weather head away from the window which will also redirect the drip loop away.

Possibly move the POA to the backside corner of the house also.


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Old 07-19-2020, 09:15 AM   #9
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Run a mast through the roof to get it away from the window? It might look silly that high but would probably be neater than doing something goofy around the window.

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Old 07-19-2020, 09:29 AM   #10
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Oh, so a mast like this... i laugh every time I see it.
When I see jobs like that, I wonder what the contractor was thinking. I have a hard time to believe that the client would not pay for a UG service.

Perhaps the utility would not allow an UG service, but they usually don't allow a POA that high either.

There has to be more to the story for sure.

Cheers
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Old 07-19-2020, 09:44 AM   #11
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Did 6 new two family houses in NY. Two panels and two meters. Common area lighting and power split between the two.

POCO will allow third meter but municipalities won’t because basement apartments are illegal. Not all but most.


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Old 07-19-2020, 12:21 PM   #12
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These masts are the norm around here. Its all about what you're used to seeing. Better its up high than have street traffic rip it down.

An underground hookup here means you need your own pole on your property (unsightly & $$$$) to accept the overhead drop, mount the meter, and then feed it underground to your house.

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POCO will allow third meter but municipalities won’t because basement apartments are illegal. Not all but most.
^ This.

No municipality here, but its to dissuade illegal occupancies just the same.
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Old 07-19-2020, 12:29 PM   #13
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These masts are the norm around here. Its all about what you're used to seeing. Better its up high than have street traffic rip it down.

An underground hookup here means you need your own pole on your property (unsightly & $$$$) to accept the overhead drop, mount the meter, and then feed it underground to your house.
I agree it is better high, then low. Why would client need a pole on their yard? Just do a direct burial (directional bore) to the utility pole across the street and up their pole; that is where the secondary comes from anyway.

No need for a client pole on their property.

Cheers
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Old 07-19-2020, 12:36 PM   #14
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I agree it is better high, then low. Why would client need a pole on their yard? Just do a direct burial (directional bore) to the utility pole across the street and up their pole; that is where the secondary comes from anyway.

No need for a client pole on their property.
PoCo rules... in this case BC Hydro. You may attach to the utility in the format they serve the area with. You want to do something different, you do it on your own property.
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Old 07-19-2020, 01:06 PM   #15
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Default Common panel/meter

There is something fishy about this job request. It may have to do with a future basement finish.

Technically he can leave everything as is, he just wants to “bring it up to current code” for no reason at all?! Lol.

However he is very persistent in hiring me and knows it’s $$$$$, especially with relocation of panels and probably close to 50 AFCI breakers.

I have no issue in keeping that same rigid mast and just turning it, adding supports, and have poco relocate POA. It wouldn’t be my initial design but this is a congested city side street, utility lines are cutting through trees from the street behind the house. Driveways are tight and funny, I have limited practical options.

Given the situation I may ask for a decent deposit to get city documents approved and possibly a POCO design engineer visit.


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Old 07-19-2020, 02:32 PM   #16
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There is something fishy about this job request. It may have to do with a future basement finish.
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Old 07-25-2020, 05:11 PM   #17
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Default Common panel/meter

Any suggestions on how to do the riser over ?

I’m using the Siemens unipak. Has anyone had an issue with setting risers recessed like this ?









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Old 07-25-2020, 09:56 PM   #18
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Any suggestions on how to do the riser over ?

I’m using the Siemens unipak. Has anyone had an issue with setting risers recessed like this ?









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Can I ask how much did this piece of equipment cost? I just did a two gang meter system and used separate components and built the system. The price for the two gang equipment was over $1,500.00. The price for Trough, meters, disconnects was $500.00 and three extra hours labor.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:00 PM   #19
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Wrongun, nevermind. We need to use ringless and lever bypass equipment. Much more expensive.
When I was an electrical inspector I had a inspection where the contractor installed a 9 gang system. I was a nice clean install but he bought his equipment from HD on line and it did not conform to local codes. Not ringless and no lever bypass.
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Oh, so a mast like this... i laugh every time I see it.
This is very common in Southern California. Pretty much any neighborhood older than 1970 has something similar.
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