Electrician Talk banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,062 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Haven't used a roll of it in years. Suddenly we had 2 different jobs in one week where we needed it. :LOL: What the heck man!?!

I wonder how long the rest of that roll will sit in the truck for.
 

·
Beam Me Up Scotty
Elechicken
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
We bought a roll a few years ago. We used it to feed 2 kitchen counter circuits... but we don't need tie bar handles when it's 2 seperate devices...
 

·
Registered
Electrical Contractor
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
Haven't used a roll of it in years. Suddenly we had 2 different jobs in one week where we needed it. :LOL: What the heck man!?!

I wonder how long the rest of that roll will sit in the truck for.
I pay about 20¢/ft for 12/3 over 14/3. I would use it up in place of 14/3 before I spent more in gas hauling it around....
 

·
Administrator
EC
Joined
·
22,182 Posts
Gosh, I remember the days when I wired entire houses in 12 awg. Came down here from NY and 12 was all we used.. I finally let go of it when people started using decora devices and we had to ground the switches. What a bear that was when you had dimmers and such in a 4 gang switch box. Went to 14 right after that...LOL
 

·
Registered
Master Electrician - Ontario
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Haven't used a roll of it in years.

I wonder how long the rest of that roll will sit in the truck for.
I bought a roll in 2014, still sitting on the shelf at my shop. I had a plan for it when it was purchased, then the plan went away... and now it sits. I think maybe I have used 20 - 30 metres of it since then.

Actually I have a bunch of "end cuts" for lack of a better term, that I have kicking around for years. Things like #14/4 AC90, #12/10 Teck90, #3/6 ACWU, etc. The same story with them all - too much to throw away, to little for an entire job.

Cheers
John
 

·
Registered
Master Electrician - Ontario
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
The problem with using #12 on general use stuff, you probably have to upsize all your boxes for box fill and devices... so it ends up being more then $0.20 a foot in the end. I think I am going to become a fan of the 20 amp split receptacle for awhile!

Even for voltage drop, it would have to be a pretty long run to use #12 is a resi situation.

Cheers
John
 

·
Registered
Electrical Contractor
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
The problem with using #12 on general use stuff, you probably have to upsize all your boxes for box fill and devices... so it ends up being more then $0.20 a foot in the end. I think I am going to become a fan of the 20 amp split receptacle for awhile!

Even for voltage drop, it would have to be a pretty long run to use #12 is a resi situation.

Cheers
John
Many years ago (pre-internet) I read an article about the upsizing wire and the related benifits. The article claimed that the money saved in heat loss by upsizing would pay for itself in 15 years. Sounds crazy but I've often wondered how those numbers would work out today with increased energy costs and whether increased material costs would affect the outcome today.
 

·
Beam Me Up Scotty
Elechicken
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
The problem with using #12 on general use stuff, you probably have to upsize all your boxes for box fill and devices... so it ends up being more then $0.20 a foot in the end. I think I am going to become a fan of the 20 amp split receptacle for awhile!

Even for voltage drop, it would have to be a pretty long run to use #12 is a resi situation.

Cheers
John
Why do 20 amp split? Put a deep box, 3 wire 12 awg into box, 12/2 out to another kitchen counter receptacle (or 2 wires out, on 2 different circuits). No tie bar handle required. Put on 2 single pole 20 amp breakers. Wire savings for long runs. Profit.
 

·
Petulant Amateur
Poor electrician, excellent bull chitter.
Joined
·
24,533 Posts
Sometimes it’s worth it to just go to Home Creepo and pay for their overpriced cuts. Having a roll of overpriced cable sitting around doing nothing makes no money sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,305 Posts
I use 12/3 quarterly. All kitchens that I remodel are usually 30 plus years old. All the existing homesruns are 12/3. So I need a few roles to reroute the wires.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Gosh, I remember the days when I wired entire houses in 12 awg. Came down here from NY and 12 was all we used.. I finally let go of it when people started using decora devices and we had to ground the switches. What a bear that was when you had dimmers and such in a 4 gang switch box. Went to 14 right after that...LOL
I still only use 12 and I'd say 90% of my work is residential new construction. I don't know why I don't switch to 14 and honestly I'd need to look up what can and can't be 14 since the last time I pulled 14 was like 2004. One architect/GC that I wire homes for spec'd 12 gauge minimum and I just got so use to doing it, its what I do know.
 

·
Registered
Working With the Tools
Joined
·
665 Posts
Haven't used a roll of it in years. Suddenly we had 2 different jobs in one week where we needed it. :LOL: What the heck man!?!

I wonder how long the rest of that roll will sit in the truck for.
I bought a roll of 10/3 MC to feed two big green house fans. I have a feeIing I
will be stuck with that (Left over) half roll forever. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,062 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I bought a roll of 10/3 MC to feed two big green house fans. I have a felling I will be stuck with that (Left over) half roll forever. :)
One company I worked at ordered several reels of 12/2 (BLK, RED, GRN - no white) MC for some special equipment that was spec'd in the prints to be run like this. I thought that was pretty odd. Probably has to be specially ordered from the factory like that.
 

·
Beam Me Up Scotty
Elechicken
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
I bought a roll of 10/3 MC to feed two big green house fans. I have a feeIing I
will be stuck with that (Left over) half roll forever. :)
This is why for jobs like that the whole roll is invoiced to the job 😃

Just use it for some dryers. It'll go quick.
 

·
Registered
Master Electrician - Ontario
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Why do 20 amp split? Put a deep box, 3 wire 12 awg into box, 12/2 out to another kitchen counter receptacle (or 2 wires out, on 2 different circuits). No tie bar handle required. Put on 2 single pole 20 amp breakers. Wire savings for long runs. Profit.
Yeah, that could be an option, but I find most of my installs are 20 amp GFCI. No need for the others to be 20 amp; I am a fan of the 15 amp split receptacle.

I am also not a fan of the "no tie handles" on MWBCs. While I know it is code, I can't count how many burnt up neutrals I have found because of this. Also I still believe it is safer for the electrician that is going to be digging around in a junction box to make sure everything is off. While I know that cannot always be the case (especially in commercial and industrial), there is no real good reason not to isolate both conductors in a residential situation.

Cheers
John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,062 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Wow, you Canadians are way behind the times. That breaker handle tie code is from like 2008 or something.
 

·
Beam Me Up Scotty
Elechicken
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
Yeah, that could be an option, but I find most of my installs are 20 amp GFCI. No need for the others to be 20 amp; I am a fan of the 15 amp split receptacle.

I am also not a fan of the "no tie handles" on MWBCs. While I know it is code, I can't count how many burnt up neutrals I have found because of this. Also I still believe it is safer for the electrician that is going to be digging around in a junction box to make sure everything is off. While I know that cannot always be the case (especially in commercial and industrial), there is no real good reason not to isolate both conductors in a residential situation.

Cheers
John
I do not like 15 amp splits for the sole reason of: They take up twice as many breaker spaces as 20 amp receptacles, and with all the arc fault rules, space can be at a premium. Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have to be common trip...

But yeah, using the 12/3 for 20 amp split receptacles would be an option...

Although yes, no tie bars are slightly more dangerous, I have gotten in the habit of using a multimeter, a tick tester, AND an amp meter when working on live circuits. I've encountered double fed things before, or people who have tied neutrals together wrong in boxes mixing them up with another cable's neutral... So for me, it doesn't bother me anymore to have to deal with no tie bar handles. If there's current on the neutral, I either work around taking the joints apart, or dump the main (when working alone) to work on it. And I like that I can use twin breakers without many issues. Yes, I need to ensure that I have them on separate legs... But that's not an issue when you can use twins. But I digress.
Wow, you Canadians are way behind the times. That breaker handle tie code is from like 2008 or something.
What do you mean? We only need tie bar handles/common trip for 240 volt loads, split receptacles, and a few other select things... If we run a 3 wire for 2 receptacles, pigtail the neutral to each device, we do not need a tie bar/common trip...
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top