[frankietheclamp]

I do very little residential in the course of my employment, since we mostly concentrate on commercial/institutional work. Occasionally though, i get a chance to do a little resi. the last three houses i have been in have that this type of service ground.

it's a 14/2 with both wires twisted together. the service in these pictures also used this method to bond the metal mast. the service is from the 60s

has this method ever been code compliant in Ontario? or is this just something that was never enforced. I have been changing them out to #6 bare, I was just wondering exactly how common this is.

 

[FrunkSlammer]

That's some strange stuff.

#6 bare right up between those two fuses?

Not sure which scares me more.

 

[frankietheclamp]

It's not #6 bare, i think you're looking at the neutral connections. they are all insulated, just not what i would call terribly high quality workmanship

 

[frankietheclamp]

This one i replaced with insulated #6 green. the other two i have encountered were panels that were already changed within the last ten years or so. the old 14/2 service grounds were just re-installed

 

[FrunkSlammer]

I have been changing them out to #6 bare

Thats what I meant by #6 bare.

Where did/does the 14/2 grounding conductor go to?

 

[frankietheclamp]

the 14/2 goes to the watermain, just like a #6 would.

in case you are wondering:

#6awg 13.3 mm2 area
#14awg 2.08 mm2 area

there is definetly a slight difference there

 

[Rollie73]

I guess someone figured it was better than nothing. I can't imagine that it was ever code compliant.

I personally wouldn't use a #6 bare. I would be using an insulated #6 for that job.

 

[RIVETER]

I do very little residential in the course of my employment, since we mostly concentrate on commercial/institutional work. Occasionally though, i get a chance to do a little resi. the last three houses i have been in have that this type of service ground.

it's a 14/2 with both wires twisted together. the service in these pictures also used this method to bond the metal mast. the service is from the 60s

has this method ever been code compliant in Ontario? or is this just something that was never enforced. I have been changing them out to #6 bare, I was just wondering exactly how common this is.

Luck has been on their side. The majority of lightning strikes on buildings are just a fractured portion of the main bolt. If the premise has ever had a minor strike the 14/2 may have saved the day.

 

[wcord]

I guess someone figured it was better than nothing. I can't imagine that it was ever code compliant.

I personally wouldn't use a #6 bare. I would be using an insulated #6 for that job.

Nothing wrong with #6 bare, but I would tape it (green of course) in the disconnect.
Better yet, if you are demoing some of the wiring, save some of the loom and slide it over the new ground wire.
Seen some weird stuff, but never 14/2 used like that

 

[Rollie73]

Nothing wrong with #6 bare, but I would tape it (green of course) in the disconnect.
Better yet, if you are demoing some of the wiring, save some of the loom and slide it over the new ground wire.
Seen some weird stuff, but never 14/2 used like that

Agreed......I was suggesting the same thing.......insulate that thing in the disco.

 

[Going_Commando]

When I swapped out my Grandfather's water heater a couple years back that was on a demand meter (lower rate), it was fed with 14/4 tar covered romex. They paralleled the 14s to get 30A capacity. Pretty dang clever. He was a bit sad when I replaced it with bright orange 10/2, and said it was tidy (he was a sparky from 1940 until 2000 when he didn't renew his license), but ugly as sin. Wish I took a picture, as it was pretty neat.

 

[Judoka]

I have seen quite a few of these twisted 14/ 2 or 12/2 as a ground. In every case, when doing a retrofit, we changed it to # 6 ground. Guess it was permissible back then.

 

[FrunkSlammer]

Any idea of the age of the installation?

 

[frankietheclamp]

The house was built around 1967. All the service masts in the neighbourhood are done with split bolts. The armoured cable feeding the furnace is aluminium.

 

[Ontariojer]

That is the way almost every service pre early 60's is here. Sometimes 12/2. Are you saying you leave the disco, but replace the 14/2? Why bother. Change the whole service if anything.

 

[denny3992]

When I swapped out my Grandfather's water heater a couple years back that was on a demand meter (lower rate), it was fed with 14/4 tar covered romex. They paralleled the 14s to get 30A capacity. Pretty dang clever. He was a bit sad when I replaced it with bright orange 10/2, and said it was tidy (he was a sparky from 1940 until 2000 when he didn't renew his license), but ugly as sin. Wish I took a picture, as it was pretty neat.

Fixed a subpanel for an engineer friend that had 2 pieces of 10/3 feeding a 60a subpanel from a 60a brkr.... No no no......

 

[denny3992]

Also saw 2-14/2 romexes connecte to a 30a brkr.. 15+15=30 i guess...

 

[karl_r]

the 14/2 goes to the watermain, just like a #6 would.

I'm not sure about ON rules, but I thought the water-main can't be used as the main electrode.

 

[Ontariojer]

I'm not sure about ON rules, but I thought the water-main can't be used as the main electrode.

Around here, it's the ONLY electrode.(when present of course).

 

[Mikeinont]

14/2 or 12/2 grounding and mast bonding was the sop for services of the 50's and 60's vintage in Ontario.