Electrician Talk banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,984 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We are rewiring a residential remodel and the owner has decided to remove the ceiling for an exposed beam look.
We need to closely follow some of the existing spaces in the dwelling to conceal the feeder.
This means that running any type of conduit is out.
We don't see much of it here but I know some of you guys run a 2-2-2-4 cable from the exterior panel into the interior panel.
I realize that USE is only for underground and has no fire rating.
That leaves us with SE cable. I understand that SE can originate from an exterior panel when protected from physical abuse. I have to assume regular Schedule 40 PVC would be the best way to go.

My question for those with experienced with this wiring method:
Is 2-2-2-4 SE the proper cable to bring in for an interior sub panel?
My load calculation is just under 80 amps.
 

·
Florida resident
Joined
·
3,898 Posts
We are rewiring a residential remodel and the owner has decided to remove the ceiling for an exposed beam look.
We need to closely follow some of the existing spaces in the dwelling to conceal the feeder.
This means that running any type of conduit is out.
We don't see much of it here but I know some of you guys run a 2-2-2-4 cable from the exterior panel into the interior panel.
I realize that USE is only for underground and has no fire rating.
That leaves us with SE cable. I understand that SE can originate from an exterior panel when protected from physical abuse. I have to assume regular Schedule 40 PVC would be the best way to go.

My question for those with experienced with this wiring method:
Is 2-2-2-4 SE the proper cable to bring in for an interior sub panel?
My load calculation is just under 80 amps.
Just about every apartment complex around here has SER run from the outside service to the interior panel and most of the homes also which are not back to back service
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
We are rewiring a residential remodel and the owner has decided to remove the ceiling for an exposed beam look.
We need to closely follow some of the existing spaces in the dwelling to conceal the feeder.
This means that running any type of conduit is out.
We don't see much of it here but I know some of you guys run a 2-2-2-4 cable from the exterior panel into the interior panel.
I realize that USE is only for underground and has no fire rating.
That leaves us with SE cable. I understand that SE can originate from an exterior panel when protected from physical abuse. I have to assume regular Schedule 40 PVC would be the best way to go.

My question for those with experienced with this wiring method:
Is 2-2-2-4 SE the proper cable to bring in for an interior sub panel?
My load calculation is just under 80 amps.
Also the one thing to note is that here in Minnesota the AHJs require that the #2 AL SER be protected with a 90 amp breaker, not sure if you have to do that there but heard horror stories about ECs having to redo the wiring after the fact and costing big dollars and wanted to make sure you were aware just in case.
 

·
Administrator
Retired EC
Joined
·
24,301 Posts
#2 ser may be compliant at 90 amps as long as the ser is not run thru insulation, ie if you can maintain the 75C rating. Otherwise the ser would be rated for 75 amps @ 60C

Sometimes it is better to avoid SER and just use PVC the entire distant and then use #2 xhhw or thhn

With the conduit you could use #1 al and get the sub up to 100 amps which leaves a bit more room for expansion
 
  • Like
Reactions: pete87

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,984 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think I am OK with the #2.
I see that SER has a bare neutral. This to me, seems like there is no ground.
If so, this isn't for me as I will need to bring in a 4 wire cable from the meter main I have outside.
Does SER come in 4 wire?
I didnt see it in the Southwire description.
 

·
Senile Member
I make all the electrons line up for their Flu shots
Joined
·
34,724 Posts
I run probably a mile of 4 wire ser a year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,469 Posts
At this level of re-hab the owner ought to seriously consider 'false-work' to cover the feeder.

Faux beams can even be custom ordered. They are as light as a feather, secured to any exposed interior with cleats. (Carpenter-speak for mounting strips of wood that are screwed into the targeted surface -- later to become anchor points for the final (hollow -- feeder inside) fake-beam.

This treatment flies up into ceilings all across America, all the time. It beats knocking yourself out trying to dress cable around radii that are at the limit of NEC/ NEMA viability.

They are almost always a cheaper solution to the need... hence their popularity.

Back videos of This Old House and DIY shows display faux beams -- which can be self-crafted with any lumber in the lumber-yard by any carpenter.

To get the right 'look' it's not uncommon to erect 'false-walls' too. False walls are THE way to mount a flat screen TV in a rustic home setting.

Such schemes have been posted to YouTube by Wired, et. al.

Actually trying to get feeder cable to evaporate inside exposed beams -- good luck with that. It figures to be a nightmare -- especially when you find out that YOUR idea of a decent job/ decent look is NOT the owner's idea of how it's supposed to look.

You'll quickly find that just how 'picky' a customer can get determine whether you loose your shirt.

Be ware.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
16,967 Posts
I think I am OK with the #2.
I see that SER has a bare neutral. This to me, seems like there is no ground.
If so, this isn't for me as I will need to bring in a 4 wire cable from the meter main I have outside.
Does SER come in 4 wire?
I didnt see it in the Southwire description.
SEU has a bare neutral. You're getting that confused with SER.
 

·
Registered
Arsholeprentice
Joined
·
7,353 Posts
At this level of re-hab the owner ought to seriously consider 'false-work' to cover the feeder.

Faux beams can even be custom ordered. They are as light as a feather, secured to any exposed interior with cleats. (Carpenter-speak for mounting strips of wood that are screwed into the targeted surface -- later to become anchor points for the final (hollow -- feeder inside) fake-beam.

This treatment flies up into ceilings all across America, all the time. It beats knocking yourself out trying to dress cable around radii that are at the limit of NEC/ NEMA viability.

They are almost always a cheaper solution to the need... hence their popularity.

Back videos of This Old House and DIY shows display faux beams -- which can be self-crafted with any lumber in the lumber-yard by any carpenter.

To get the right 'look' it's not uncommon to erect 'false-walls' too. False walls are THE way to mount a flat screen TV in a rustic home setting.

Such schemes have been posted to YouTube by Wired, et. al.

Actually trying to get feeder cable to evaporate inside exposed beams -- good luck with that. It figures to be a nightmare -- especially when you find out that YOUR idea of a decent job/ decent look is NOT the owner's idea of how it's supposed to look.

You'll quickly find that just how 'picky' a customer can get determine whether you loose your shirt.

Be ware.
All your posts are super long.....:laughing:
 

·
corn-fused
Joined
·
4,769 Posts
At this level of re-hab the owner ought to seriously consider 'false-work' to cover the feeder.

Faux beams can even be custom ordered. They are as light as a feather, secured to any exposed interior with cleats. (Carpenter-speak for mounting strips of wood that are screwed into the targeted surface -- later to become anchor points for the final (hollow -- feeder inside) fake-beam.

This treatment flies up into ceilings all across America, all the time. It beats knocking yourself out trying to dress cable around radii that are at the limit of NEC/ NEMA viability.

They are almost always a cheaper solution to the need... hence their popularity.

Back videos of This Old House and DIY shows display faux beams -- which can be self-crafted with any lumber in the lumber-yard by any carpenter.

To get the right 'look' it's not uncommon to erect 'false-walls' too. False walls are THE way to mount a flat screen TV in a rustic home setting.

Such schemes have been posted to YouTube by Wired, et. al.

Actually trying to get feeder cable to evaporate inside exposed beams -- good luck with that. It figures to be a nightmare -- especially when you find out that YOUR idea of a decent job/ decent look is NOT the owner's idea of how it's supposed to look.

You'll quickly find that just how 'picky' a customer can get determine whether you loose your shirt.

Be ware.
not sure, are suggesting 'hiding' non-compliant electrical? none of us would do that!:whistling2:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,984 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I scoured the Southwire site and found that four wire is now called 3 wire and five wire is now called four wire.
So, I just have to go with knowing that SER is the cable type and I will use 4-4-4-2 and put it on an 80 or 90 amp breaker.
 

·
Super Moderator
Licensed Electrical Contractor
Joined
·
11,794 Posts
If this is the main power feeder to a dwelling, even after a main disconnect, then #2SER (2-2-2-4) is FINE on a 100A breaker.
Putting it on a 90 would violate 230.79(C).
 

·
Administrator
Retired EC
Joined
·
24,301 Posts
Thanks.
My load calc was just ove 75 amps and I dont think what they have in there is going to draw 30 or 40 amps.
Also, It might be a trick to get 1/0 into a plug in breaker.
Again if the ser is rated 60C then technically #2 al is not rated for an 80 amp overcurrent protective device. Do I think it is an issue? NO and the inspector probably would never see it but I did have to state code.
 

·
Super Moderator
Licensed Electrical Contractor
Joined
·
11,794 Posts
Am I wrong in that 310.15(B)(7) applies here? Is this not a dwelling main feeder?
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top