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I had someone tell me that the new 4-022 of 2018 says you have to pigtail all identified conductors. Where I read it as the complete opposite, where it does not allow you to pigtail identified conductors.

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New rule states pig tailing of identified conductors in such a manner that any identified conductor can be disconnected without disconnecting any other identified conductor.
So with the identified conductors marretted, you are able to disconnect the identified conductor from a device without disconnecting anything else down stream. In the refresher course we discussed why not just splice all conductors now. No more double wires on receptacles.


Tim.
 
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Yes but the rule does not specify device. It says any, so how do you remove a indentified conductor from a pigtail with out disconnecting any other indentified conductors?
 

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That why I mentioned the update course, the intention is so that the identified conductor may be disconnected from a "device" without interrupting the return path. Should in theory prevent the possibility of 240v across down stream devices.
This way you are able to replace a device without interrupting the identified conductor.




Tim.
 

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is this not the same as 4-028(4) in the 2015 code ?
 

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I had someone tell me that the new 4-022 of 2018 says you have to pigtail all identified conductors. Where I read it as the complete opposite, where it does not allow you to pigtail identified conductors.

Thoughts?
They are wrong.
It’s not a new code. That is an old code as @emtnut posted. It does not say you must pigtail at devices. The only change is they added sub rule (2) which says you need a neutral at every switch location.

There is a code that says you must pigtail at devices if using a multi-wire branch circuit. 4-036(4) in 2015, 4-030(4) in the 2018.
 

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They are wrong.
It’s not a new code. That is an old code as @emtnut posted. It does not say you must pigtail at devices. The only change is they added sub rule (2) which says you need a neutral at every switch location.

There is a code that says you must pigtail at devices if using a multi-wire branch circuit. 4-036(4) in 2015, 4-030(4) in the 2018.

Following your direction, found the four "neutral" in Rule 4-028 in C22.1-15 are replaced with "identified conductor" in Rule 4-022(1) in C22.1-18.
 

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Following your direction, found the four "neutral" in Rule 4-028 in C22.1-15 are replaced with "identified conductor" in Rule 4-022(1) in C22.1-18.
Yes, identified conductor is a more accurate term in that situation and that is why they changed the wording in that code from "neutral".
 

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I'm always moving the furnace switch during renos. Does this mean I have to run a 3 wire just to put a neutral at the switch?
 

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I'm always moving the furnace switch during renos. Does this mean I have to run a 3 wire just to put a neutral at the switch?
No, you run power to the switchbox like any self-respecting electrician would :biggrin:

I agree with the furnace switch thou .... nice if they'd make up their mind where they want it !
 

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No, you run power to the switchbox like any self-respecting electrician would :biggrin:

I agree with the furnace switch thou .... nice if they'd make up their mind where they want it !
Many furnace switches are mounted in the ceiling in front of the furnace. The inspectors want them accessible and ahead of the furnace, which makes sense. It's easy to run a loop to the new switch location. If I have to run a 3 wire to the switch to satisfy the rule, it is what it is.

I get it that a neutral is nice at a switch location in case a smart switch is installed but, with a furnace, the smart device is the thermostat
 

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Many furnace switches are mounted in the ceiling in front of the furnace. The inspectors want them accessible and ahead of the furnace, which makes sense. It's easy to run a loop to the new switch location. If I have to run a 3 wire to the switch to satisfy the rule, it is what it is.

I get it that a neutral is nice at a switch location in case a smart switch is installed but, with a furnace, the smart device is the thermostat
I was giving you a hard time cause I thought you were talking about 2 different situations.

By code, I guess you would have to have the neutral presence. .... Waste of wire :sad:

I recently had to move the furnace switch from 'just outside' the furnace room door, to 'just inside' the door. Sooooo ... if you go to the furnace room now, and smell smoke or see flames, you have to open the door to kill the furnace.

I remember when they were all installed at the top of the stairs to the basement. Personally, that's where I'd rather see it.
 

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When I bought my house the basement was already finished by the last home owner. They left the furnace switch where it was originally, in the ceiling. Problem was they built a closet there so my switch was inside a closet.
 

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I'm always moving the furnace switch during renos. Does this mean I have to run a 3 wire just to put a neutral at the switch?
I’m hoping ESA in Ontario comes out with a few exemptions for the rule when their 2018 book comes out. furnace switch would be one of them hopefully
 

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I'm always moving the furnace switch during renos. Does this mean I have to run a 3 wire just to put a neutral at the switch?
FYI, I just noticed that the new code requiring an identified conductor at each switch location says "of permanently installed luminaires" so no need for one at the furnace switch. 4-022(2):smile:
 

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Come on guys, the 3 wire is so that you can put a dimmer or better yet an occupancy sensor on the furnace.
"it always works when I'm in the room"



Tim.
Good one! :vs_laugh: Food for thought though, do we really want to bother shutting the furnace off on our way out the door! :surprise:

But, I do believe we should all get used to bringing a neutral to every outlet, or switch. Can't remember the exact definition of outlet, so I added switch. :wink:

Times are changing quickly, adapt. :wink:

Thank you,

Borgi
 
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