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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all
This is in Toronto.
Its gunna be inspected.

I have a splitter box.
Then 3 100a fused switches
Then metre bases.
Then panels.

I am moving a 100a panel into a unit upstairs with AL Shielded (bx) 2/3 conductor wire. 60ft run.

Now do I need to call hydro to pull the metre base and push the wire directly into the load side?

Or can I add a knife switch where the panel is and avoid the hydro fee and waiting game. Only concern is this can make the unit 100a panel be treated as a sub panel then I can't use the 2/3 aluminum bx. I'd have to upsize? I'm hoping this is stupid logic on my part and I can do this!

Pics attached!

Motor vehicle Gas Vehicle Machine Electrical wiring

Motor vehicle Gas Machine Engineering Space
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Being inspected.
Already called in.

I normally do single metre resi stuff

I know I can go right into the metre.
Trying to avoid $600 hydro fee and time wasted on appointments by using a disconnect.

And the answer to your Q is yes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This place is so hostile.
Lec
450 fee annually paid.
Masters annual 90 paid.
Insurance annually paid.

I came for genuine help.
Not this.
I'll call the inspector.
You all just stick in a small click here and pat each other than genuinely help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Like I said.
New people don't belong here I guess.
I'm sorry I didn't meet your exact al ac90 terminology.
Some is ran exposed (inside) so shielded is required. I hope not everyone shares your attitude here. You must be a great leader.

Consider people skills.
Maybe next time leave out your second question (assumption) and just ask the first.
 

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Like I said.
New people don't belong here I guess.
I'm sorry I didn't meet your exact al ac90 terminology.
Some is ran exposed (inside) so shielded is required. I hope not everyone shares your attitude here. You must be a great leader.
I still don’t understand what you mean by “shielded”.
Can you explain what you mean by that?

Are you referring to the metal armour?

And what do you mean by “the exposed will require a shield”.
 

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@lohirise, we get a lot of DIY here, which is not allowed.

Of course we all use “trade terms” that are not the correct term, but we all know what we are talking about because they are common across the country on job sites.

When you use terms that are incorrect, that make you look like a DIY. You might want to look into what a “shielded conductor” is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You asked
I respectfully answered your Q with some details off the cuff to help support it and said Yes.
Then you continued to insinuate and question or ignore my 'yes' answer.

That obv frustrated me.

I don't come here often so I don't know your preferred terms.

It's a very straightforward Q and prob has a very easy answer.

If you can't help. Then let's stop this game.
It's Sunday.
Theres better things to do.
 

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Electrical Contractor
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If you are going to remove the meter to install the new load conductors, you will have to have POCO install a new seal.
I dont know the rules in your jurisdiction, but if hydro has to be the one to cut the seal and remove the meter, then you'll have to wait for their arrival.
Shielded armoured cable is a different product than regular AC90.
I assume, you meant AC90 or ACWU?

FYI
Shielding and Armor are often found side by side in Wire and Cable catalogs, which makes it look like they're practically the same thing. Both are metallic, wrapped around cable components, and protect the integrity of the cable. Although they have a lot in common, shielding and armor are not the same and the terms shouldn't be used interchangeably. So what makes them different?

Shielding
Shielding is a layer of metal between the part of the cable that passes electricity, also known as the conductor, and the outer layer of a cable is known as the jacket. Shielding is made of copper, aluminum foil, steel, or another conductive material. These materials work as “noise” insulation for the conductor, keeping the cable’s signal in and signals from other nearby cables out. It protects the cable from an invisible signal and current interference also called electrostatic interference. This allows the cable to work with uninterrupted signals, doing its job effectively and efficiently.

Armor
The armor gives cable physical protection. This layer of metal, also made of copper or aluminum, is wrapped around the outside of the cable. The armor is strong, sturdy, and defends the cable when it’s used in harsh environments, like those in commercial buildings or underground installations. The armor prevents the wire from being crushed or otherwise physically damaged its environment. Though it may provide some blockage against interference, cable armor is not meant for use where physical protection is not needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
That is actually helpful.
I mean armoured. 3c armoured alumiunum #2.
Sorry for any confusion on my part.
We just call it bx cable here in Toronto.

Yes my jurisdiction requires hydro to cut the seal to remove the metre.

I'm trying to avoid that because they contract it out now there's a fee. It used to be one free disconnect a year.

That's why I'm asking if I may just put a knife switch in place of the panel. Then come out of the switch with the al90 to the new panel location in the unit to avoid this.

It's not so much the fee, it's the timing. I need to have this done sooner than later and I'm sure it'll be a month for hydro to get to it here.

Also paranoid if I can do this can the Insp say it is a sub panel now and I need to upsize the wire or go find a 90a breaker.
This is prob me being silly though. But you never know.
 

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Personally I don't see anything wrong with that design.
Cheaper and definitely faster.
Technically speaking, the original install is a subpanel as you have a disconnect already in the circuit.
Your conductors from the meter will probably be too short to reach the line terminals on the disconnect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
May need a 90amp in case they say #2 ALU is too small for 100amp (already ran the wire)
I believe they'll treat it as the main supply to that unit and allow the #2 ALU since it goes direct from metre to unit main panel. Otherwise. If they treat it like a sub panel because of the throw switch I want to put I think #2 ALU is only rated for 90amps

As for the conductors already there. I think they can just make it.
If not as long as the neutral makes it I'm good and I can use 2 insulated line splice to extend to the line side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Will it be a sub panel, or will it still be a feeder to a separate apartment?


It will be a feeder from metre base to knife switch to 100a panel into an apt.

In the pic. Shows main disconnect.
Splitter box.
Fused disconnects.
To metres
To panels for units.

All stays as is except I'm moving panels into units and rewiring the units to the new panel location and want to put a throw switch in place of old panel locations.

So I want to make sure I'm good with #2 al wiring as the extender wire into the units.

And if I have to go directly into the metres or if I can use the knife switch to avoid dealing with hydro and just deal with Esa

Absolute worst case I gotta involve hydro and wait and ontop worst worst case I gotta spend another $70 on a 90a main breaker too
 

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May need a 90amp in case they say #2 ALU is too small for 100amp (already ran the wire)
I believe they'll treat it as the main supply to that unit and allow the #2 ALU since it goes direct from metre to unit main panel. Otherwise. If they treat it like a sub panel because of the throw switch I want to put I think #2 ALU is only rated for 90amps

As for the conductors already there. I think they can just make it.
If not as long as the neutral makes it I'm good and I can use 2 insulated line splice to extend to the line side.
Yes, but why not just put 90A fuses in the disco? And maybe it's different out here but I dont see a difference between the ampacity of a feeder and a service. Both are able to use table 39 (2018).
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
The fused disconnect also has a hydro tag. And the splitter.
So I can't swap fuses in there.
If I buy a fused disconnect it's more money and more fuses. If they ever fail blow. Headache to change.
90a breaker is only $70 and in the main unit. Hassle free. Reset if it ever trips (which it shouldn't)

And yes I agree. Should be treated as main unit feeder and no issues.
I'm just being over cautious / paranoid

The other paranoid part I have is if I use a throw switch and the neutral is broken / spliced onto lugs they may not like that as the neutral usually needs to be a direct run from metre to main panel with no breaks in between. Unless that doesn't matter here as the main service entrance neutral is what is important to have no breaks / splices.


Yes, but why not just put 90A fuses in the disco? And maybe it's different out here but I dont see a difference between the ampacity of a feeder and a service. Both are able to use table 39 (2018).
 
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