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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all
This is in Toronto.
Its gunna be inspected.

I have a splitter box.
Then 3 100a fused switches
Then metre bases.
Then panels.

I am moving a 100a panel into a unit upstairs with AL Shielded (bx) 2/3 conductor wire. 60ft run.

Now do I need to call hydro to pull the metre base and push the wire directly into the load side?

Or can I add a knife switch where the panel is and avoid the hydro fee and waiting game. Only concern is this can make the unit 100a panel be treated as a sub panel then I can't use the 2/3 aluminum bx. I'd have to upsize? I'm hoping this is stupid logic on my part and I can do this!

Pics attached!

Motor vehicle Gas Vehicle Machine Electrical wiring

Motor vehicle Gas Machine Engineering Space
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Being inspected.
Already called in.

I normally do single metre resi stuff

I know I can go right into the metre.
Trying to avoid $600 hydro fee and time wasted on appointments by using a disconnect.

And the answer to your Q is yes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This place is so hostile.
Lec
450 fee annually paid.
Masters annual 90 paid.
Insurance annually paid.

I came for genuine help.
Not this.
I'll call the inspector.
You all just stick in a small click here and pat each other than genuinely help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Like I said.
New people don't belong here I guess.
I'm sorry I didn't meet your exact al ac90 terminology.
Some is ran exposed (inside) so shielded is required. I hope not everyone shares your attitude here. You must be a great leader.

Consider people skills.
Maybe next time leave out your second question (assumption) and just ask the first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You asked
I respectfully answered your Q with some details off the cuff to help support it and said Yes.
Then you continued to insinuate and question or ignore my 'yes' answer.

That obv frustrated me.

I don't come here often so I don't know your preferred terms.

It's a very straightforward Q and prob has a very easy answer.

If you can't help. Then let's stop this game.
It's Sunday.
Theres better things to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
That is actually helpful.
I mean armoured. 3c armoured alumiunum #2.
Sorry for any confusion on my part.
We just call it bx cable here in Toronto.

Yes my jurisdiction requires hydro to cut the seal to remove the metre.

I'm trying to avoid that because they contract it out now there's a fee. It used to be one free disconnect a year.

That's why I'm asking if I may just put a knife switch in place of the panel. Then come out of the switch with the al90 to the new panel location in the unit to avoid this.

It's not so much the fee, it's the timing. I need to have this done sooner than later and I'm sure it'll be a month for hydro to get to it here.

Also paranoid if I can do this can the Insp say it is a sub panel now and I need to upsize the wire or go find a 90a breaker.
This is prob me being silly though. But you never know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
May need a 90amp in case they say #2 ALU is too small for 100amp (already ran the wire)
I believe they'll treat it as the main supply to that unit and allow the #2 ALU since it goes direct from metre to unit main panel. Otherwise. If they treat it like a sub panel because of the throw switch I want to put I think #2 ALU is only rated for 90amps

As for the conductors already there. I think they can just make it.
If not as long as the neutral makes it I'm good and I can use 2 insulated line splice to extend to the line side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Will it be a sub panel, or will it still be a feeder to a separate apartment?


It will be a feeder from metre base to knife switch to 100a panel into an apt.

In the pic. Shows main disconnect.
Splitter box.
Fused disconnects.
To metres
To panels for units.

All stays as is except I'm moving panels into units and rewiring the units to the new panel location and want to put a throw switch in place of old panel locations.

So I want to make sure I'm good with #2 al wiring as the extender wire into the units.

And if I have to go directly into the metres or if I can use the knife switch to avoid dealing with hydro and just deal with Esa

Absolute worst case I gotta involve hydro and wait and ontop worst worst case I gotta spend another $70 on a 90a main breaker too
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
The fused disconnect also has a hydro tag. And the splitter.
So I can't swap fuses in there.
If I buy a fused disconnect it's more money and more fuses. If they ever fail blow. Headache to change.
90a breaker is only $70 and in the main unit. Hassle free. Reset if it ever trips (which it shouldn't)

And yes I agree. Should be treated as main unit feeder and no issues.
I'm just being over cautious / paranoid

The other paranoid part I have is if I use a throw switch and the neutral is broken / spliced onto lugs they may not like that as the neutral usually needs to be a direct run from metre to main panel with no breaks in between. Unless that doesn't matter here as the main service entrance neutral is what is important to have no breaks / splices.


Yes, but why not just put 90A fuses in the disco? And maybe it's different out here but I dont see a difference between the ampacity of a feeder and a service. Both are able to use table 39 (2018).
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Maybe your supply auth. has something similar? For some reason the red tag procedure isn't widely advertised out here. My local inspector didn't know about it and even some of the Hydro people don't know about it even though it's pretty legit. Also, when I call in and tell them I'm pulling the meter to replace a panel for safety reasons it's free for the customer. Otherwise charge is about 150 for them to come and replace the tag.
I'll call Monday and ask.

It used to be free here (1 a year) and sometimes we were allowed to pull with permission.

But so much has changed since its contracted out now.some other towns in Ontario don't contract out (like Hamilton) and they still have free pulls / disconnects
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Are you saying you want to put a 90 amp breaker in your relocated panel?
If so, that doesn't protect your #2 al.
You have to place your ocp on the line side of your conductors
Hmm then I would need a fusable disconnect with 90a fuses in there.

Since there's no other load between the metre, knife switch I wanna put inbetween and the relocated panel, I still need 90a fuse on that disconnect/switch??
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
This is also true. But if you use table 39 and mark it as load restricted you can use the 100A fusing, no change required.
Ahh so mark it load restricted at the 100a throw switch.
Run direct to panel with the #2 al from throw and into 90a breaker would do it?

I'm hoping the Insp will be fine with the 100a since there is no load inbetween anyhow and only about 60ft run.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
What have you been doing for work? This is pretty simple stuff. Get a code book and look at 4-004 (22) and the Appendix B reference they describe the procedure exactly.
And length has nothing to do to with ampacity of a conductor.
Sigh.
I meant luckily the length doesn't affect voltage drop so I don't need to upsize.
Sometimes these units can be quite a ways away.

I don't normally have to worry {as in ever} about restricting loads and such.

I'm sorry if my questions are too basic for you.
But I'd rather inquire and figure it out the right way than keep getting it wrong until it works.

Thanks for the code ref. I shall go check that out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Yes let's cherry pick question a from 2018.

Hey I know. Let's get a vet to do heart surgery on a human.
Still a doctor right?
Never has to learn anything new right? He just transferred over and won't ask because well you know. He's worried he'll be laughed at... By some stranger... On the internet... Like you...
Lol

I'd like to thank all that actually helped with my question here. Your apprentices are lucky they have you and not these high mighty shmo's that judge. Not help. Mirrors boys. Use em.

And if you could find something from 1999 on me let's use that too.
May I now "assume" your character?

You believed wrong :ROFLMAO:


I'm open for a skin effect conversation thou :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I really like helping apprentices. If you're an apprentice, just let us know, we'll be kinder with you.
That would contradict the start of this thread. Wouldn't it?

And to me, it should not matter who is askin as long as they're in the trade and going thru the hoops.

But hey. Diff apples.
 
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