[fistofbolts]

why do we not have a special forces type setup. kind of like the whole salting program, but extremely coordinated and planned out long term. example: hall wants to take over and get a large competitor shop organized, so we make a plan to get some very knowledgeable trained workers in their that are good with people and their job, I'm talking general foreman/foremen types. obviously the hall would have to supplement the difference in wages and make a good incentive to do that. follow up with the people implanted, find out who their main guys are running work etc. and have a planned recruitment for them between other shops, give them offers they cant refuse. have another program setup for all the other guys to get them organized etc.....and so on.
I just do not understand why we are not being much more aggressive and trying new things. as we all see that the pace we are going now is not nearly enough. its all fair game, big business is trying to destroy us with politics. what is the difference, and we wouldnt be attempting to harm the target shops, might actually help them.

 

[ponyboy]

Because all the organized guys would get ce/cw classifications which would take work from class A guys who did the apprenticeship which would create bad blood. And if the good ones got backdoored in with an A card it would piss off all the guys who did the apprenticeship. Unless it was a giant shop that was being organized id bet a lot of the guys would lose their job

 

[fistofbolts]

Because all the organized guys would get ce/cw classifications which would take work from class A guys who did the apprenticeship which would create bad blood. And if the good ones got backdoored in with an A card it would piss off all the guys who did the apprenticeship. Unless it was a giant shop that was being organized id bet a lot of the guys would lose their job

yeah I'm talking the big dogs, 100+ employees. I get what your saying, but wouldnt the new cw's be not taking work since they are working for the same company as before, and as for the A-men cant they test in? im pretty sure our local does this

 

[rewire]

yeah I'm talking the big dogs, 100+ employees. I get what your saying, but wouldnt the new cw's be not taking work since they are working for the same company as before, and as for the A-men cant they test in? im pretty sure our local does this

The large 100 + man shops take care of their employees so the IBEW has nothing to offer other than causing them to pay dues.

 

[Going_Commando]

Shop flipping? I would probably start with a big loader with pallet forks (kinda like a lull on steroids) and go from there. Might have to use a saw to cut the studs or a torch on the beams to make it move easier.

 

[rewire]

Shop flipping? I would probably start with a big loader with pallet forks (kinda like a lull on steroids) and go from there. Might have to use a saw to cut the studs or a torch on the beams to make it move easier.

the next reality show , Shop Flippers

 

[LGLS]

Some locals have done this, usually to cherrypick. Around here, when shops get larger and start bidding against IBEW contractors, they usually operate on a gameplan of one 1/2 way decent electrician on site, with little to know supervisory experience, a couple of jacklegs, and then a plethora of what you'd call day laborers. To kill the goose, you chop the head off.

 

[rewire]

Some locals have done this, usually to cherrypick. Around here, when shops get larger and start bidding against IBEW contractors, they usually operate on a gameplan of one 1/2 way decent electrician on site, with little to know supervisory experience, a couple of jacklegs, and then a plethora of what you'd call day laborers. To kill the goose, you chop the head off.

and union guys wonder why they are not thought of very highly by non union electricians

 

[EBFD6]

The large 100 + man shops take care of their employees so the IBEW has nothing to offer other than causing them to pay dues.

Exactly!

To the op, don't you think the guys who work for those shops are already aware of the IBEW's existence? If we wanted to be union, we'd have joined the union. I've worked for a shop that was salted. I'm non union for a reason and would prefer if the IBEW would mind their own business.

 

[eejack]

For the most part aggressive salting doesn't work. Larger companies that avoid being unionized do so two ways. They either take very good care of their employees ( good for them btw, any company that treats employees well should be lauded ) or they do so with FUD ( fear uncertainity doubt ).

The companies that do so with good treatment don't need unionizing and those that do so with FUD cannot be flipped because they will never survive the process. They will burn their employees rather than pay decently or provide good conditions and benefits. Those are the companies, as someone mentioned, you pull their skill guys out of. Like an inverse cancer you chop out the good tissue and let the rotten part die and wither off.

 

[Big John]

The large 100 + man shops take care of their employees so the IBEW has nothing to offer other than causing them to pay dues.

I'd wager that's probably pretty accurate.

I've said it before, I don't think non-union shops are automatically the "enemy" or should even be the focus of unions. Go after any shop that doesn't treats workers fairly, or doesn't provide safe working conditions, or doesn't stick to labor laws.

The merit shops that sincerely look out for their workers are already achieving the union ideal.

 

[eejack]

and union guys wonder why they are not thought of very highly by non union electricians

You misunderstand the quoted text - the half trained guy running hoards of cheap untrained labor are the non union guys.

Funny story - I was on a job that was being completed after the original contractor got kicked off and had their bond attached. The original ( non union ) contractor had one smart electrician who laid out all the work, and a guy who spoke spanish who ran the day laborers. ( we knew this because the day laborers came to the site to work )

When we took over, there was hundreds of sticks of 3/4" emt with box sets and a pallet of factory ninetys, no benders but a emt box set kicker.

The more we dumb down the industry, the more I see of crap like that.

 

[electricmanscott]

why do we not have a special forces type setup. kind of like the whole salting program, but extremely coordinated and planned out long term. example: hall wants to take over and get a large competitor shop organized, so we make a plan to get some very knowledgeable trained workers in their that are good with people and their job, I'm talking general foreman/foremen types. obviously the hall would have to supplement the difference in wages and make a good incentive to do that. follow up with the people implanted, find out who their main guys are running work etc. and have a planned recruitment for them between other shops, give them offers they cant refuse. have another program setup for all the other guys to get them organized etc.....and so on.
I just do not understand why we are not being much more aggressive and trying new things. as we all see that the pace we are going now is not nearly enough. its all fair game, big business is trying to destroy us with politics. what is the difference, and we wouldnt be attempting to harm the target shops, might actually help them.

Would going back to second grade to learn how to write be considered trying something new?

Come on, you all were thinking it. :laughing:


Instead of stealing why not create? :confused1:

 

[rewire]

You misunderstand the quoted text - the half trained guy running hoards of cheap untrained labor are the non union guys.

Funny story - I was on a job that was being completed after the original contractor got kicked off and had their bond attached. The original ( non union ) contractor had one smart electrician who laid out all the work, and a guy who spoke spanish who ran the day laborers. ( we knew this because the day laborers came to the site to work )

When we took over, there was hundreds of sticks of 3/4" emt with box sets and a pallet of factory ninetys, no benders but a emt box set kicker.

The more we dumb down the industry, the more I see of crap like that.

That is not the norm. Just as lazy union guys is not the norm.

 

[brian john]

why do we not have a special forces type setup. kind of like the whole salting program, but extremely coordinated and planned out long term. example: hall wants to take over and get a large competitor shop organized, so we make a plan to get some very knowledgeable trained workers in their that are good with people and their job, I'm talking general foreman/foremen types. obviously the hall would have to supplement the difference in wages and make a good incentive to do that. follow up with the people implanted, find out who their main guys are running work etc. and have a planned recruitment for them between other shops, give them offers they can't refuse. have another program setup for all the other guys to get them organized etc…..and so on.
I just do not understand why we are not being much more aggressive and trying new things. as we all see that the pace we are going now is not nearly enough. its all fair game, big business is trying to destroy us with politics. what is the difference, and we wouldnt be attempting to harm the target shops, might actually help them.

Why do you continue to post stupid trollish questions? Are you trying to stir crap or are you just a f'ing idiot?

 

[eejack]

That is not the norm. Just as lazy union guys is not the norm.

No, it is not the norm. Most of the non union guys I know do nice work and put in a good day's effort. Heck, most folks ( union or non-union ) just want to go to work, do a nice job and go home in one piece.

But it seems like I run into sleazier and sleazier contractors every day - most of them are non union and are not under the same scrutiny as union contractors.

I blame the contractors, not the men who work for them. Most folks are honest and willing to work and given the opportunity and tools, willing to do good and safe work.

 

[LGLS]

and union guys wonder why they are not thought of very highly by non union electricians

No we don't.

 

[LGLS]

I'd wager that's probably pretty accurate.

I've said it before, I don't think non-union shops are automatically the "enemy" or should even be the focus of unions. Go after any shop that doesn't treats workers fairly, or doesn't provide safe working conditions, or doesn't stick to labor laws.

The merit shops that sincerely look out for their workers are already achieving the union ideal.

You're absolutely right. Any effort to unionize a large, happy, well paid nonunion shop would fail.

 

[rewire]

No, it is not the norm. Most of the non union guys I know do nice work and put in a good day's effort. Heck, most folks ( union or non-union ) just want to go to work, do a nice job and go home in one piece.

But it seems like I run into sleazier and sleazier contractors every day - most of them are non union and are not under the same scrutiny as union contractors.

I blame the contractors, not the men who work for them. Most folks are honest and willing to work and given the opportunity and tools, willing to do good and safe work.

A contractor here landed a bunch of work then did not complete any of it he was going from bank to bank getting loans based on contracts( back in'03) he disappeared with all the cash . All his guys did not get paid and the material for the jobs was not paid for.
The BA pulled his bond to pay benefits The hall did not vet this guy before letting him become signatory.

 

[rewire]

You're absolutely right. Any effort to unionize a large, happy, well paid nonunion shop would fail.

why let a little thing like the guys not wanting to be union stop you.