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Do they really?

Ive heard a lot of people on the internet throw around the purple twisters as not being listed or something, but i sure haven’t seen any actual documentation on that.

Alumicons are definitely way better and a solid connection, but I still carry the twisters as well. They work good in old light boxes.
I use em all the time. I don't worry about it. Make sure to lightly twist the two wires together first so there is good contact without breaking the alum wire.
 

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I don't know what the Canadian package says , but Ideal's purple 65 in USA says for temporary repairs.
I don't know about the Ideal ones, but the Marette brand 65's are not limited that way (at least in Canada)

I’ve got a job I’m pricing that has some aluminum wiring on the branch circuits. No idea how much. However the homeowner wants to change all the devices.
What’s the right way to handle it?
Alumiconns on all splices in j-boxes?
Pigtail aluminum in receptacles and switches with copper using alumiconns and then installing a regular outlet/switch?

Or just install al/cu rated devices and Replace splices with alumiconns?

TIA
I had to look up Alumiconns, I'm not familiar with them, I think they might not be rated for Canada use.
My preference is to use the AL/CU rated marrettes (63 + 65) to pig tail copper to a regular device. Yes this can be difficult in crowded boxes.
But here is my reasoning:

1. My supplier doesn't carry the AL/CU devices, so that makes the choice easy lol.
2. The higher price of the AL/CU device vs AL/CU marrettes is probably balanced my the time savings of not having to pig tail everything in the box, so 50/50.
3. By Canada code, we have to use an anti-oxidant on all aluminum terminations. Doing that on a device just seems overly messy to me. The marrettes contain that mess.
4. We all know home owners will try to do their own electrical from time to time, and that if they change the device in the future for some reason, they will probably not replace with a AL/CU device. So if I AL to CU pigtail to a normal device now, they don't have to worry about it latter. I like to think it is safer this way.
 

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Hackenschmidt
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I looked at that, and all I see is it is approved for aluminum... no for aluminum to copper.
Nope… use them for copper to aluminum and your gonna have issues
I wouldn't even think about using them if they are not clearly approved on the package labelling so that I can easily show a customer or inspector. But I suspect that lever nuts would work as well as anything with aluminum. I can't see how it would matter to a wire whether it's neighbors in the lever nut are aluminum or copper. They separate the wires like the Alumicons do so you don't have the issue of copper contact with aluminum. I would bet the spring in the lever nut is far superior to the screws in the Alumicon for aluminum.

If a little noalox is all it takes, Wago probably ought to spend the money to have them tested and approved for aluminum and copper. It would be a huge problem solver and a good way to get people to try the product.
 

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I wouldn't even think about using them if they are not clearly approved on the package labelling so that I can easily show a customer or inspector.
Funny you mention showing them to a customer... earlier this week the lady I'm working for with aluminum wiring asked how I was changing the devices since she knows about the aluminum wire in the house, after I explained and showed her the bag of purple wire nuts and pointed out were it clearly says for aluminum to copper connections she actually took a picture of the bag. I'm sure she'll be on google looking them up and if we see any HO posts on here about the subject I expect everyone to shut her down quickly please lol!
 

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Funny you mention showing them to a customer... earlier this week the lady I'm working for with aluminum wiring asked how I was changing the devices since she knows about the aluminum wire in the house, after I explained and showed her the bag of purple wire nuts and pointed out were it clearly says for aluminum to copper connections she actually took a picture of the bag. I'm sure she'll be on google looking them up and if we see any HO posts on here about the subject I expect everyone to shut her down quickly please lol!
What she is going to find on the internet is websites that try to show purple 65's catching fire and exploding houses. It is alleged that the company that provides certification for large sums of money, makes rental tools and sells very expensive sleeves to join copper to aluminum wire is behind that and the pictures were faked. I am only repeating what other posters on other forums have seemed to have found out, I never personally found a burnt up purple 65 , though I have seen that when regular wire nuts were used to splice alum to copper.
 

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What she is going to find on the internet is websites that try to show purple 65's catching fire and exploding houses. It is alleged that the company that provides certification for large sums of money, makes rental tools and sells very expensive sleeves to join copper to aluminum wire is behind that and the pictures were faked. I am only repeating what other posters on other forums have seemed to have found out, I never personally found a burnt up purple 65 , though I have seen that when regular wire nuts were used to splice alum to copper.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that were true, I did make sure to point out the wire combinations listed on the package and as long as I follow those directions that’s all I can do, the alternative is a house re-wire.
 

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I don't know about the Ideal ones, but the Marette brand 65's are not limited that way (at least in Canada)



I had to look up Alumiconns, I'm not familiar with them, I think they might not be rated for Canada use.
My preference is to use the AL/CU rated marrettes (63 + 65) to pig tail copper to a regular device. Yes this can be difficult in crowded boxes.
But here is my reasoning:

1. My supplier doesn't carry the AL/CU devices, so that makes the choice easy lol.
2. The higher price of the AL/CU device vs AL/CU marrettes is probably balanced my the time savings of not having to pig tail everything in the box, so 50/50.
3. By Canada code, we have to use an anti-oxidant on all aluminum terminations. Doing that on a device just seems overly messy to me. The marrettes contain that mess.
4. We all know home owners will try to do their own electrical from time to time, and that if they change the device in the future for some reason, they will probably not replace with a AL/CU device. So if I AL to CU pigtail to a normal device now, they don't have to worry about it latter. I like to think it is safer this way.
Your point #3 throws off the required torque values. We had a thread several weeks ago about proper torque techniques. Any lubricant on the threads affects the value.
All of this is probably a way to place any blame on the contractors.
 

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Your point #3 throws off the required torque values. We had a thread several weeks ago about proper torque techniques. Any lubricant on the threads affects the value.
All of this is probably a way to place any blame on the contractors.
Maybe?
I'm sure some gets from the wire to the screw threads, but enough to really mess with torque values? It's not like device screws are tightened to 300lb-ft or anything.
 

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We are required by Kamloops AHJ to re make all the aluminum to aluminum connections also. the ideals are not rated for that so its #63 and #65 for me
Twister® AL/CU Wire Connectors are designed as a one-use only connection.
For use only on copper-to-copper or aluminum-to-copper connections. Do not use on aluminum-to-aluminum connections.
WARNING:
Use only on Aluminum to Copper (Al/Cu) or Copper to Copper (Cu/Cu) wire combinations. When using with Al/Cu (intermixed – dry locations) combinations with Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA) conductors, the aluminum conductor can be replaced with the Copper Clad Aluminum substituted in the combinations listed above. One time use only. Do not reuse connector.

 

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I'm gonna jump into the conversation here since I've had quite a few years of experience with Aluminum retrofits. The Consumer Product safety Commission was formed mainly because of the issue of Al wire. They have a PDF of info on their website, but it's outdated and hasn't been updated in apx 10 years. I used to use AL devices wherever poss and Ideal Purple Wirenuts everywhere else. But then I had a customer show me a letter from their homeowners insurance company that said they would only accept a complete rewire or retrofit with Alumiconn devices. Also, they don't make Aluminum-rated Tamper-resistant receptacles. So now I use Alumiconn connectors on all Aluminum Current Carrying Conductors and the Ideal Purple on all Aluminum Grounding Conductors. Hope that helps :)
 

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I'm gonna jump into the conversation here since I've had quite a few years of experience with Aluminum retrofits. The Consumer Product safety Commission was formed mainly because of the issue of Al wire. They have a PDF of info on their website, but it's outdated and hasn't been updated in apx 10 years. I used to use AL devices wherever poss and Ideal Purple Wirenuts everywhere else. But then I had a customer show me a letter from their homeowners insurance company that said they would only accept a complete rewire or retrofit with Alumiconn devices. Also, they don't make Aluminum-rated Tamper-resistant receptacles. So now I use Alumiconn connectors on all Aluminum Current Carrying Conductors and the Ideal Purple on all Aluminum Grounding Conductors. Hope that helps :)
I remember when they first came out the purple wire nuts were only to be used for emergency repairs and not general pigtailing. Is that still true?
 

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Sooo…..
I worked for a company that may or may not have been close to where the OP is located ;) who did tons of these jobs. No idea how they got into that market - I didn’t even know there was a big market for Aluminum wiring re-device jobs. And I didn’t stick around long enough to see how everything went, but this is the jist of it:

  • Big apartment complexes that were in the middle of a sale couldn’t get insurance with regular aluminum wiring.
  • They sold these retrofit jobs by the unit. Not by the device.
  • They would have a minimum of 200-300 units to do at every complex.
  • they manned these jobs up. 5-7 guys per unit.
  • All devices, light fixtures and appliance connections got redone with Alumicons.
-projects usually took a couple months. Everyone stayed in a nearby hotel.
  • First several weeks would be slow, then the crew would hit their groove and start burning through apartments.
  • lots of logistics issues, guy’s getting into fights & arguments. Tenants looking to blame someone for something missing ( that never was there in the place :rolleyes:). Just lots of headaches.

Like I said, didn’t work their long but I thought I’d throw that out there. When they told me about these jobs, I was very skeptical at first because I’d never heard of any contractors doing these projects. But it sounds like this is a pretty normal thing in the older apartment business when ever a property gets acquisitioned.
 

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Chief Flunky
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I remember when they first came out the purple wire nuts were only to be used for emergency repairs and not general pigtailing. Is that still true?
It seems like a bad idea since the whole point if the CuAl stuff is galvanic corrosion control. Any time in industrial where someone say gets a wild idea and puts a split bolt on a copper line to connect to aluminum utility wire. Within a couple years everything dissolves.
 

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It seems like a bad idea since the whole point if the CuAl stuff is galvanic corrosion control. Any time in industrial where someone say gets a wild idea and puts a split bolt on a copper line to connect to aluminum utility wire. Within a couple years everything dissolves.
I just went on a service call where the house lost one leg. They had a service change three years ago and the electrician used copper split bolt connectors and exactly what you said happened. The Aluminum wire was completely corroded away. The Utility gives licensed electricians the right connectors for free and they allow us to make the proper connections.
 

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Chief Flunky
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I just went on a service call where the house lost one leg. They had a service change three years ago and the electrician used copper split bolt connectors and exactly what you said happened. The Aluminum wire was completely corroded away. The Utility gives licensed electricians the right connectors for free and they allow us to make the proper connections.
I’m not buying that aluminum is inferior in electrical work. Almost everything in overhead lines is aluminum. The exception is copperweld which is copper coated aluminum, which seems like a really bad idea, and some triplex runs. Most utility transformers are aluminum wiring, too. Everything works just fine until you mix copper and aluminum.

Plus what happened in the 1960s is they took structural grade aluminum and made house wire. Electrical grade aluminum is very different.
 

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I’m not buying that aluminum is inferior in electrical work. Almost everything in overhead lines is aluminum. The exception is copperweld which is copper coated aluminum, which seems like a really bad idea, and some triplex runs. Most utility transformers are aluminum wiring, too. Everything works just fine until you mix copper and aluminum.

Plus what happened in the 1960s is they took structural grade aluminum and made house wire. Electrical grade aluminum is very different.
I should have added that the 2/0 copper was in direct contact with the #4 Aluminum triplex. That's where the problem was.
 

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Everyone is down on the purple wire nuts but it amazes me that sometimes I take down a light fixture and find tan or yellow wire nuts on aluminum with what appears to be no problem, so how could a wire nut that was supposedly designed for the purpose be so bad?
 

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Everyone is down on the purple wire nuts but it amazes me that sometimes I take down a light fixture and find tan or yellow wire nuts on aluminum with what appears to be no problem, so how could a wire nut that was supposedly designed for the purpose be so bad?
what is the other wire under the nut?
 
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