[glen1971]

Saw this last week, and went back today for pics... The MCC has a basement that is below it and is open to it (under the sections). It is also on the east side of a sour gas plant. It would be new in 1960-ish...

 

[millelec]

I'd ask the guys who've also worked in wastewater treatment plants. Could be H2S plating out on your bus bars. It does bad things to copper.

 

[wildleg]

is that copper or al ?

 

[Big John]

My money is those are tinned bus bars. I see the exact same thing happen to silver plated conductors in paper mills as a result of sulfur exposure.

 

[piperunner]

Saw this last week, and went back today for pics... The MCC has a basement that is below it and is open to it (under the sections). It is also on the east side of a sour gas plant. It would be new in 1960-ish...

Well I maybe wrong because I only run conduit all day but it looks like the natural gas has made copper sulfide .

 

[JRaef]

Silver plated bus, and those are what is called "silver whiskers", caused, as millelec said, by the presents of H2S gas (hydrogen sulfide) which is a byproduct of anything that rots or ferments. years ago it used to be standard for some MCC mfrs to use silver plated bus as standard as an 'upgrade" compared to competitors, tin was considered of lesser quality. Turned out that was a bad idea.

It is a well known issue for turd farms and they typically have air scrubbers to deal with it. If you are at a turd farm and this is happening, it indicates that your scrubber system may not be working right and needs to be fixed before the H2S erodes a lot more than this. But it can be present in a lot of other circumstances as well.

That is not yet bad, but it only gets worse...
http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker./other_whisker/silver/index.htm

 

[wildleg]

Well I maybe wrong because I only run conduit all day but it looks like the natural gas has made copper sulfide .

copper (I) sulfate surface reaction with chalcocite deposits ?

 

[MTW]

 

[Big John]

...That is not yet bad, but it only gets worse...
http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker./other_whisker/silver/index.htm

:blink: Never seen anything remotely like that.

Usually the plating just reacts and flakes off.

I seem to recall hearing about minute tin-whiskers from raised-floor assemblies being a huge problem in data rooms because they formed an ultra-conductive dust. But my understanding is those whiskers were tiny, never large enough to individually bridge insulator gaps.

 

[piperunner]

copper (I) sulfate surface reaction with chalcocite deposits ?

Well its not the sour gas thats effecting the copper bus or silver plated bus its what they put in the natural gas that makes copper turn gray or black in color it smells like rotten eggs because they add sulfur to it so we can smell the gas because natural gas is order less . Sulfur is the part that corrodes anything

 

[wildleg]

Well its not the sour gas thats effecting the copper bus or silver plated bus its what they put in the natural gas that makes copper turn gray or black in color it smells like rotten eggs because they add sulfur to it so we can smell the gas because natural gas is order less . Sulfur is the part that corrodes anything

I thought it was the H2S that reacted with everything. I didn't know mercaptin was reactive. I'll have to look that up.

 

[NC Plc]

This is why I really, really like this forum. I learn something new every single day.

 

[wildleg]

ok, so I looked up the reactivity of mercaptan - methyl mercaptan is highly reactive, but not in the quantities in which it would ordinarily be encountered (even at mixing facilities for natural gas distribution plants)

 

[Big John]

Well its not the sour gas thats effecting the copper bus or silver plated bus its what they put in the natural gas that makes copper turn gray or black in color it smells like rotten eggs because they add sulfur to it so we can smell the gas because natural gas is order less . Sulfur is the part that corrodes anything

Natural gas isn't scented with sulfur, it's mercaptan.

I agree, though, that it is sulfur damage: Sour gas has H2S in it.

 

[piperunner]

Natural gas isn't scented with sulfur, it's mercaptan.

I agree, though, that it is sulfur damage: Sour gas has H2S in it.

Well what do you think mercaptan is its a organic sulfur compound but I could be wrong lets check it .

When I lived up north we had well water the water was crystal clear and was the best to drink .
when I came to florida the water smelled like crap its sulfur in the water if you drill down here for well water you get sulfur in you water it rots out pumps it corrodes you pipes and if you sprinkle your lawn your house and driveway turn brown. It will eat its way thur anything .


The metallurgic lab tests conducted by Anamet, Inc. in Hayward state the 8-inch steel pipe used in the crude unit was installed in 1976 and over the years, was thinned out by corrosive sulfur compounds that naturally occur in crude distillation. Pipe samples showed a low amount of silicon, which is known to prevent this kind of damage.

 

[ohmontherange]

:blink: Never seen anything remotely like that.

Usually the plating just reacts and flakes off.

I seem to recall hearing about minute tin-whiskers from raised-floor assemblies being a huge problem in data rooms because they formed an ultra-conductive dust. But my understanding is those whiskers were tiny, never large enough to individually bridge insulator gaps.

Once I had to take samples from under a raised floor and send them to an environmental lab for analysis amongst a butt load of other crap because of a problem with a really expensive router the manufacturer couldn't fix. After all the drama it turned out to be a problem with the router (memory leak in one of the routing engines) but the manufacturer was trying to blame it on everything else they could think of, "dirty power", grounding, "surges", zinc whiskers being sucked into the air intakes from plenum space.

 

[dronai]

This is why I really, really like this forum. I learn something new every single day.

Give it a week, and you will know everything like the rest of us :blink:

 

[bkmichael65]

Well what do you think mercaptan is its a organic sulfur compound but I could be wrong lets check it .

When I lived up north we had well water the water was crystal clear and was the best to drink .
when I came to florida the water smelled like crap its sulfur in the water if you drill down here for well water you get sulfur in you water it rots out pumps it corrodes you pipes and if you sprinkle your lawn your house and driveway turn brown. It will eat its way thur anything .


The metallurgic lab tests conducted by Anamet, Inc. in Hayward state the 8-inch steel pipe used in the crude unit was installed in 1976 and over the years, was thinned out by corrosive sulfur compounds that naturally occur in crude distillation. Pipe samples showed a low amount of silicon, which is known to prevent this kind of damage.

Mercaptan is made from H2S and methanol

 

[NC Plc]

Give it a week, and you will know everything like the rest of us :blink:

Haha. I'm almost 30, too old to know it all.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

Sulfur is the part that corrodes anything

That's funny because when the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel came out, UST's started having severe corrosion issues. It may be due to something else, but the timing was right in line with the introduction of ULSD.