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Just trying to get home
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Okay...I'll bite...

I'm not a licensed a$$hole but I have a lot of experience in it...so we might want to move this to controversial thanks to me...no offense intended, yet, but you might take it that way.

What did you do before forums were invented before to have "built software" and do any sort of electrical work?

Some people are paid to know "everything". That's why they're tested and licensed or certified and whatnot. Those are the people on the ET forum, not DIY or programmers who also want to learn enough electrical to get by.

Capiche?
 

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I do home automation because I understand the technology better than most. It's been my profession for 25 years. It's not always about troubleshooting the electrical components with smart home devices...and for that, like I said, I can get assistance from someone in the field.

Sorry, but the home automation arena is not so technically complex that the Geek Squad is more qualified than many residential service electricians. Smart switches and getting Alexa or Siri to control them is not any more in the arena of a 25 year experienced IT geek than it is a DIYer or any non-boomer electrician.

I don't care about what your IT and computer programming qualifications are. Electricians don't deal with video walls, save to power them, and what you're doing is stepping over what you want to consider a blurred line that is not blurred at all. The automation of a homes lights and heating and cooling and maybe landscape watering is electrical work. It is a subset botique offshoot of electrician, and you're viewing the situation in reverse - that an electrical switch is a computer that just happens to need power and control a line voltage load, and it's your IT arena. That is no more true that claiming to be a dishwasher or refrigerator repairman because there's a microchip in it. Or an auto mechanic because the car has a computer.

This is as simple as an avid gardener needing a water spigot on a house or in a yard and thinking the landscapers or the nursery is more in tune to the needs of a garden and therefore should be intimately involved with the plumbing of the house and install the spigot themselves.

The industry has no shortage of the "Dan the IT and cable man" trunkslammers who, contractor licensed or not, engage in electrical license required work outside their lawful scope because of a slight and obvious overlapping of the skillsets. When one of them is openly promoting home automation, as a GC, the only road to financial viability is to cheat the licensing system system if your expertise is only in the IT field and not licensed in the electrical. I submit this is why you're here. There I said it. If you are indeed not crossing that line in the course of your business then any problems issues or questions you have from your end should be directed to the licensed electricians you claim to be working with. But you're here because you don't want to do that, I suspect.

Otherwise, you're just a GC here to pick electricians brains for the same reason the rest of the GCs and non electricians are. To avoid hiring and paying a qualified person, and that is not what this forum is for. Those total home sound system/ video/security and total home integration prospects are a collaboration between the electrician and the product suppliers - the specific input required by the electrician from them is individual, custom and unique, just like the supplier of a company's servers and computer racks and systems collaborate with the EC for their power requirements. But they're not electricians either and not allowed here.

I'm sure that you'd feel the same way if, after installing miles of fiber optic and coaxial cable under the streets of NYC and into buildings I took off my coveralls and donned a button down shirt and started de-bugging the hospitals computers and foreign intrusion firewalls for their robotic surgery and supervised your appendectomy... because I've been involved with the data industry for over 25 years.

The few years in construction experience you have don't qualify you. I don't care how many decks you built, awnings, window and door replacement, bathroom gut rehabs, kitchens you've put in. Unless the few years is 8000 hours of strictly construction or industrial/commercial electrical work - it's moot. That is a vain attempt to justify your shoehorning into a electrician's forum using the same flawed rationale you're using to believe you can specialize in a home automation gig w/o an electrician's license. A slight overlap in a peripherally similar skillset doesn't cut it.

Don't get me wrong TechHomes, this is not personal. The internet has a bunch of forums on home automation. That is where this belongs. When an IT home automation tech joins an electrical forum, it is because they want to cut the electrician's part out of their picture and DIY it themselves sans the required license - and we all know it. This is not about "team effort."
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
You are hilarious!

You think that analyzing computer systems is "DIY programming". Try troubleshooting a complex computer network and see how that works of for you! And NO, people are NOT paid to "know everything". They are paid to be experts in their field - i.e. best practices, experience, and guidance. And even with those skills, the still sometimes run questions by other colleagues.

No one knows everything -- and you'd have to be a real a$$hole to think that you do. Capiche? Lastly, before forums. I read books, lots of them and obtained a Masters in Computer Science. I have even used my expertise to build tools for people like you that think they "know everything".
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Sorry, but the home automation arena is not so technically complex that the Geek Squad is more qualified than many residential service electricians. Smart switches and getting Alexa or Siri to control them is not any more in the arena of a 25 year experienced IT geek than it is a DIYer or any non-boomer electrician.

I don't care about what your IT and computer programming qualifications are. Electricians don't deal with video walls, save to power them, and what you're doing is stepping over what you want to consider a blurred line that is not blurred at all. The automation of a homes lights and heating and cooling and maybe landscape watering is electrical work. It is a subset botique offshoot of electrician, and you're viewing the situation in reverse - that an electrical switch is a computer that just happens to need power and control a line voltage load, and it's your IT arena. That is no more true that claiming to be a dishwasher or refrigerator repairman because there's a microchip in it. Or an auto mechanic because the car has a computer.

This is as simple as an avid gardener needing a water spigot on a house or in a yard and thinking the landscapers or the nursery is more in tune to the needs of a garden and therefore should be intimately involved with the plumbing of the house and install the spigot themselves.

The industry has no shortage of the "Dan the IT and cable man" trunkslammers who, contractor licensed or not, engage in electrical license required work outside their lawful scope because of a slight and obvious overlapping of the skillsets. When one of them is openly promoting home automation, as a GC, the only road to financial viability is to cheat the licensing system system if your expertise is only in the IT field and not licensed in the electrical. I submit this is why you're here. There I said it. If you are indeed not crossing that line in the course of your business then any problems issues or questions you have from your end should be directed to the licensed electricians you claim to be working with. But you're here because you don't want to do that, I suspect.

Otherwise, you're just a GC here to pick electricians brains for the same reason the rest of the GCs and non electricians are. To avoid hiring and paying a qualified person, and that is not what this forum is for. Those total home sound system/ video/security and total home integration prospects are a collaboration between the electrician and the product suppliers - the specific input required by the electrician from them is individual, custom and unique, just like the supplier of a company's servers and computer racks and systems collaborate with the EC for their power requirements. But they're not electricians either and not allowed here.

I'm sure that you'd feel the same way if, after installing miles of fiber optic and coaxial cable under the streets of NYC and into buildings I took off my coveralls and donned a button down shirt and started de-bugging the hospitals computers and foreign intrusion firewalls for their robotic surgery and supervised your appendectomy... because I've been involved with the data industry for over 25 years.

The few years in construction experience you have don't qualify you. I don't care how many decks you built, awnings, window and door replacement, bathroom gut rehabs, kitchens you've put in. Unless the few years is 8000 hours of strictly construction or industrial/commercial electrical work - it's moot. That is a vain attempt to justify your shoehorning into a electrician's forum using the same flawed rationale you're using to believe you can specialize in a home automation gig w/o an electrician's license. A slight overlap in a peripherally similar skillset doesn't cut it.
I get if you feel like I can't learn something here or that you have this vast amount of knowledge that only an electrician can understand, but it's funny how you widdle everything in home automation down to the generic skillset of the Geek Squad. Really? Not everything automated uses electricity. Let that sink in for a second. And what does require electricity has a computer component that you or your Geek Squad buddies are no doubt unqualified to troubleshoot.

You may not even be able to troubleshoot your own personal computer. I don't know. But understand this: Technology is not some easy to learn "fly by night" skillset. To minimize that knowledge is like saying any unlicensed GC can do the work of a senior electrician. You can hook-up as many IOT devices as per the manufacturers instructions....and that's where your knowledge ends. You are no better equipped to figure out what went wrong 3 months down the road when a client calls you screaming about something not working than the Geek Squad. Maybe you don't care. Maybe you don't want to know. That's your prerogative.
 

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You are hilarious!

You think that analyzing computer systems is "DIY programming". Try troubleshooting a complex computer network and see how that works of for you! And NO, people are NOT paid to "know everything". They are paid to be experts in their field - i.e. best practices, experience, and guidance. And even with those skills, the still sometimes run questions by other colleagues.

No one knows everything -- and you'd have to be a real a$$hole to think that you do. Capiche? Lastly, before forums. I read books, lots of them and obtained a Masters in Computer Science. I have even used my expertise to build tools for people like you that think they "know everything".
And now you're installing WiFi switches...
Because the guy who rang up my 16 ounce cup of joe in 7-11 today also has a masters in computer science, I suspect.
 

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It is not that your ability is looked down on, not by me anyway, it's that if you are installing the switches then you are technically breaking the law. There were 2 companies around here that did the home automation stuff and one had a license to do electrical work and the other would either sub it out or get involved in a new home and get the ec to install the switches.

Home works by Lutron cannot even be bought by a licensed electrician unless they have taken the training from Lutron. They can buy it and they usually get an electrician to do the wiring. One company did all the loads and gave us a spreadsheet with numbered switches and what the controlled and which circuit they would be on. That was very helpful.

I am not a techie guy so I admire your ability but this may not be the right site for you. I will not ban you so you are welcome to stay and answer questions as long as you don't get into having this forum try to lay out wiring etc for you. I am closing this thread for now
 
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