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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a question about bonding a metal gas piping system to a metal water piping system. I am using the 2014 NEC, section 250.104(B). - I have been under the assumption that gas piping in a home could be bonded to any point to a metal water piping system. However, after looking further at 250.104(B) I am really questioning my thinking on this. - I understand the gas piping system needs to be bonded to one of the items listed as (1), (2), (3), (4), and (5) of 250.104(B). I did look at the reading in the handbook that says the use of an additional bonding jumper is not always required for gas piping.... I also looked at 250.52(A)(1)... Honestly, I am having a hard time framing my question without writing an entire book. To the point: Is it acceptable to bond a metal gas pipe at any point to a metal water piping system, or does the gas piping system have to be bonded to a point within the first five feet of the point of entrance of the water system. - If I remember correctly, some time ago, I performed an electrical panel change and I bonded the gas piping system to a point on the water piping system that was more than five feet away from where the water piping system entered the structure. Thanks in advance for your answers!

On another note: I no longer see the stipulation, or "with five feet" rule in 250.52(A)(1) (2008 NEC) (Our jurisdiction never adopted the 2011 NEC) If we use an underground water pipe as an electrode do we still have to make our connections withing the first five feet?...
 

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Paul,
250.52 is all about grounding electrodes, 250.52(B)(1) prohibiting the use of underground gas pipe for an electrode.

250.104(b) is about grounding & bonding, describing metallic systems being made to what is often no more than the EGC of the serving circuit

It's confusing , but try and remember that not all bonding is grounding & visa versa ....

~CS~
 

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The first five feet of a qualifying water line on the interior of the building is the only part considered a grounding electrode.

And, I have to ask... why do you want an additional bond to the gas piping? If the gas piping is connected to an electrically powered appliance 250.104(B) permits the EGC to serve as the bonding means.

If you are talking about CSST you need to follow the manufacturers installation instructions to meet their bonding requirements.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I work a lot with remodels. When you are unsure what wires, or circuits, may cross the gas line in an unexposed portion of a structure I would like to bond the pipe to make the installation as safe as possible. - I do understand that it is not always required to be bonded, however the inspector usually looks for that bond as far as I know. (Waste, water, and gas... waste, water, and gas....) From what I read, it looks like it does in fact have to be bonded to one of the four items listed in 250.104(B). (That is the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or one or more of the grounding electrodes used.) Let's say you have a 60A furnace circuit that crosses the gas piping for an fireplace insert. The ground wire that is hooked to the fireplace blower is probably not going to be of sufficient size to protect that gas piping from the 60A furnace circuit. - So, the way I read it is, if I want to bond it to the water pipe it has to be bonded withing the first five feet according to the 2008 NEC. Again, I do not see the same five foot rule in the 2014 NEC. The language stating that interior metal water piping located more than 5 ft from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the grounding electrode system or as a conductor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding electode system seems to have been removed from the 2014 NEC. (It might be located somewhere else...) Anyway, I do not see any allowance for a gas piping system that may be energized by a larger circuit to be bonded from any other point on a water piping system except from within the first five feet of the point of entrance, and that is only if it can be used as a grounding electrode. I hope this clears up, at least a little bit, why and what I am asking here.
 

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Bonding jumper can be installed at any point.

A gas water heater is an easy place. Close and accessible.
Used to be a good place.

Now days plumbers get in there and hack out the copper pipe and replace it with their poly stuff. Usually when they replace the tank, but they can break their copper line anywhere thus losing the bond.

I usually go right back to the panel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Used to be a good place.

Now days plumbers get in there and hack out the copper pipe and replace it with their poly stuff. Usually when they replace the tank, but they can break their copper line anywhere thus losing the bond.

I usually go right back to the panel.
This seems to be the best method in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Paul
most of us just run a piece of #8 solid cu around , and tag everything metallic on a reno

have you asked your ahj ?

~CS~
I did ask one ahj. - He said I could bond the gas to any point on a water piping system, (provided it's metal). (We did not talk about ccst.) - However, I am not entirely sure this is correct per the actual NEC requirements. To me, the best, and safest way to bond the gas is to run a bond back to the panel, or to an actual grounding electrode, or its conductor; unless you can be sure it is not likely to be energized by anything larger than what an egc can protect against.
 

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Pete m. said:
The first five feet of a qualifying water line on the interior of the building is the only part considered a grounding electrode. And, I have to ask... why do you want an additional bond to the gas piping? If the gas piping is connected to an electrically powered appliance 250.104(B) permits the EGC to serve as the bonding means. If you are talking about CSST you need to follow the manufacturers installation instructions to meet their bonding requirements. Pete
Which requires a number 6 back to the panel, unless it's counter strike csst in which you don't need anything
 
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