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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was called back to a house today, a homeowner complained about a box extension I used on a 4x4 box. I used a standard extension with the rounded corners which was put on a 1900 box. The customer insists the gaps at the corners indicate its wrong!!

Unless I owe someone a big apology, there isn't an extension that is squared off like a 1900 box correct? They all look like this correct?



If that's the case, how are the slight gaps in the corners when installed on a 1900 box acceptable to UL, NEC or whoever the heck makes the rules?

BTW: I politely showed the homeowner my collection of extension rings in the back of my van and explained that its the correct extension. (as far as I know now that I think about it!!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Customers reasoning was that the gaps would allow excess air and an opening for flames. I said, you mean it takes away its fire rating? He said... yeah, that's dangerous..!!

Wait a second... your photo shows a squared off one... so indeed the customer is always right... I used the wrong extension for a 4x4 box? If that other one is available, its not on my van though. Any thoughts?
 

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...I used the wrong extension for a 4x4 box...?
I would think for that to be true the extensions would have to have listings specific to that type of box.

I looked quickly in the UL White Book and they're all under "QCIT" for "Metallic Outlet Boxes" and they don't seem to make any distinction between rolled or welded edges.

I've mixed the two styles many times, I think the customer is out to lunch. Would he happen to be an engineer? :whistling2:
 

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A gun and tube of silicone will fix the gap. If the guy is an A hole , a sloppy silicone job needs to get done.
 

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mwr said:
Customers reasoning was that the gaps would allow excess air and an opening for flames. I said, you mean it takes away its fire rating? He said... yeah, that's dangerous..!! Wait a second... your photo shows a squared off one... so indeed the customer is always right... I used the wrong extension for a 4x4 box? If that other one is available, its not on my van though. Any thoughts?
You are not wrong. Don't let your customers tell you what materials are and are not compliant. It sets a bad precedent.
 

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I think the customer has a point, even if that extension ring is listed for such an application.

Hell, receptacle and luminaire boxes can't have a 1/8th inch gap to the wall, for the exact same reason. Why should this be different?
 

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I think the customer has a point, even if that extension ring is listed for such an application.

Hell, receptacle and luminaire boxes can't have a 1/8th inch gap to the wall, for the exact same reason. Why should this be different?
What about the 1/8" diameter holes that are punched in all 4 sides, from the factory, on every one I've ever used?
 

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Pharon said:
I think the customer has a point, even if that extension ring is listed for such an application. Hell, receptacle and luminaire boxes can't have a 1/8th inch gap to the wall, for the exact same reason. Why should this be different?
Lots of 4 square blanks are indexed to attach any way you turn it. No matter what way you put it on you'll end up with two 1/4" holes in opposing corners. I personally think the argument here is bogus and being blown way out of proportion.
 

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Very bogus indeed. 314.21 talks about flush covers on plaster and drywall. Not a very good comparison to a stamped steel extension ring, fitting against a stamped steel 4-square. I think the OP's homeowner is nuts.
 

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All our boxes have 1/4 " holes so we can screw them to the 2 bys. Canadian code has a rule that a 1/4 inch rod shall not pass thru any hole. Change the above to 3/16 inch holes for mounting screws.

Now I suppose I should go look up that code rule but I'm sure it exists and as we usually copy the NEC you might have it too.
 

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Very bogus indeed. 314.21 talks about flush covers on plaster and drywall. Not a very good comparison to a stamped steel extension ring, fitting against a stamped steel 4-square. I think the OP's homeowner is nuts.
Actually, it's about all noncombustible surfaces, not just plaster and drywall. And its purpose is to limit oxygen flow.

Like I said, if this is bogus, then so is that.
 

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My work is so good, I don't need to worry about a fire in my boxes. :whistling2:

So what does he say about the two unused slots in the blank cover?
 

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Actually, it's about all noncombustible surfaces, not just plaster and drywall. And its purpose is to limit oxygen flow.

Like I said, if this is bogus, then so is that.
Yes the title changed after the '08 code...from plaster and drywall. That article is still in reference to a flush-type cover or faceplate....neither of which is an extension ring. 314.22 covers those and makes ZERO mention of any air gaps required to be sealed.
 

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Something no one has asked.....how/where is the 1900 box mounted? I didn't see anything in the OP to indicate the 4-square was mounted flush with a wall surface.
 

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don_resqcapt19 said:
You should have used these...a Chicago plenum box. (Garvin Industries, but I know other companies make them too.
What's the cost compared to a standard 4 square? 300%?
 

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Big John said:
I don't know, but I think my bank account balance went down just looking at that picture.
No kidding right. Those buggers just look expensive, all smooth and shiny and whatnot
 
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