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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is the job, new construction, mixed used, 4 residential condo's on 2nd floor with common hallway and stairwell which is 19'x65' windows on each end.

I meet with the owner who wants me to put the hallway lighting on a timer....huh???
I've just sent him an email saying we should install occ sensors if not, switches.
I did tell him that timers suck for this application for reasons I'm sure you guys all know.

So my question is, how would you guys handle this?
Would you of just installed the timers, told him we need occ sensors, or something else???
 

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Flex Bits & Blindfolds
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Here is the job, new construction, mixed used, 4 residential condo's on 2nd floor with common hallway and stairwell which is 19'x65' windows on each end.

I meet with the owner who wants me to put the hallway lighting on a timer....huh???
I've just sent him an email saying we should install occ sensors if not, switches.
I did tell him that timers suck for this application for reasons I'm sure you guys all know.

So my question is, how would you guys handle this?
Would you of just installed the timers, told him we need occ sensors, or something else???
It's entirely possible he is unaware of the existence and function of an occupancy sensor. Time to put on your salesmen shoes. :thumbup:
 

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Estwing magic
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It's entirely possible he is unaware of the existence and function of an occupancy sensor. Time to put on your salesmen shoes. :thumbup:
So what happens when a guy is trying to unlock the door to his suite and the occ sensor times out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
99cents said:
So what happens when a guy is trying to unlock the door to his suite and the occ sensor times out?
I use quality occ sensors, that's a non issue, unless he is narcoleptic and has has a tendency to have a fit after he climbs stairs....
 

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Flex Bits & Blindfolds
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So what happens when a guy is trying to unlock the door to his suite and the occ sensor times out?

If he's in that hallway and doesn't move a muscle for 20 minutes, he has other problems than getting his key on a lock
 

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Estwing magic
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I use quality occ sensors, that's a non issue, unless he is narcoleptic and has has a tendency to have a fit after he climbs stairs....
Then put it on occ sensors and adjust your timeout accordingly.

You said, however, that timers suck and they don't. No matter how you design this you have to put in multiple occ sensors. A seasonal timer at the panel is easier. It's done all the time.
 

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Estwing magic
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I don't understand guys who ask for suggestions and then argue because their way is better. If you already had your mind made up, why ask the question?
 

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I would have suggested something else while meeting in person, and if the owner still pushes their idea, I'd just do it their way.

When that winds up sucking bawlz, I'd change it to the way I originally suggested and charge them a bunch of money for the after-work fix.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
99cents said:
I don't understand guys who ask for suggestions and then argue because their way is better. If you already had your mind made up, why ask the question?
Don't get upset, it's called a discussion, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean it's an argument.
You can always add to the discussion after my post, you know 2 way communication....
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
FrunkSlammer said:
I would have suggested something else while meeting in person, and if the owner still pushes their idea, I'd just do it their way. When that winds up sucking bawlz, I'd change it to the way I originally suggested and charge them a bunch of money for the after-work fix.
Couldn't agree more, this is what I did but followed up with an email this morning.
Just curious how you guys would of handled it, it's good to get other opinions
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
99cents said:
Then put it on occ sensors and adjust your timeout accordingly. You said, however, that timers suck and they don't. No matter how you design this you have to put in multiple occ sensors. A seasonal timer at the panel is easier. It's done all the time.
I think a timer in this app sucks, what if it's a dark day and there's not enough daylight for safe access/egress...
 

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Estwing magic
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Don't get upset, it's called a discussion, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean it's an argument.
You can always add to the discussion after my post, you know 2 way communication....
I'm not upset, I'm just thinking that the building owner has probably used timers before and they worked for him. I don't know, occ sensors seem to be a source of call backs for me and it's not because I buy them from the dollar store.

We just finished some apartment buildings and put seasonal timers at the panel. It's common practice around here; a single, dependable point of control.
 

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Estwing magic
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I think a timer in this app sucks, what if it's a dark day and there's not enough daylight for safe access/egress...
That's why we normally install two circuits, one that's on all the time and one that is controlled by the timer. I dunno, maybe it's building code around here. Might be different where you are.
 

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the thing about this type of install is that if they have seen it work at another building with high quality components, sometimes they think their electrician can do it with a shoestring budget and cheap home depot parts. I would ask them if they have seen their idea work and where it was and who made the parts. Then show them the bill to do it their way with the good parts.

Oh wait he wants the timer. Ya that is a crappy idea with a long hall. I would look into minimum lumens for common areas or something, even a guideline to show them that there could be a legal precedent if someone gets hurt due to lack of light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks fellas, all good ideas. He has timers in previous building so yeah he just wants to use them, I thought occ would be the way to go but your right 99, timers but 2 circuits is a good option.

It's a new customer and it could be huge for me so I appreciate all the input, I just didn't want to reinvent the wheel...
 

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Estwing magic
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Thanks fellas, all good ideas. He has timers in previous building so yeah he just wants to use them, I thought occ would be the way to go but your right 99, timers but 2 circuits is a good option.

It's a new customer and it could be huge for me so I appreciate all the input, I just didn't want to reinvent the wheel...
We tie our emergency lighting into the unswitched circuit. Might be something else to consider.
 

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Use LED fixtures, two circuits, one on 24 Hrs, other controlled by a timer, maybe install a photocell as well to account for those dark days.
 
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