# Distance between ground rod and water pipe grounding?

17520 Views 129 Replies 25 Participants Last post by  piperunner
My boss was pointing out that there should be a distance of 8 feet between the ground rod connection and the water pipe connection. He gave an explanation for why this needs to be true, but I didn't quite understand it. Something about an infinite number of parallel ground paths being cut in half? Can anyone offer an explanation for this? I am about to go look up the code article.
1 - 20 of 130 Posts

#### Elephante

· Registered
Joined
·
1,460 Posts
owl said:
My boss was pointing out that there should be a distance of 8 feet between the ground rod connection and the water pipe connection. He gave an explanation for why this needs to be true, but I didn't quite understand it. Something about an infinite number of parallel ground paths being cut in half? Can anyone offer an explanation for this? I am about to go look up the code article.
he probably just doesn't want you to drive rod through the water pipe.lol

#### owl

· Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
Discussion Starter · ·
Elephante said:
he probably just doesn't want you to drive rod through the water pipe.lol
Lol. Well, he was pointing out the problem in someone else's work, and saying the two were installed too close together. I'm pretty sure he wasn't worried about the ground rod going through the pipe.

#### ButcherSlayer

· Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
I know 8 ft from rod to rod but never heard from rod to water main. Interesting lol

#### KGN742003

· Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
I know 8 ft from rod to rod but never heard from rod to water main. Interesting lol
It's 6 feet.

Edit: Actually after rereading 250.53 there is no minimum spacing for grounding electrodes of the same system. This is one of those things I was told coming up and apparently never checked for myself.

#### brian john

· Registered
Joined
·
33,522 Posts
There is no rule in the NEC regarding this you can place the electrode next to the water pipe.

But there is a theory that says the further apart the electrodes are the better said electrodes will work.

The resistance of the surrounding body of earth
The ground electrode is surrounded by earth which conceptually is made up of concen- tric shells all having the same thickness. Those shells closest to the ground electrode have the smallest amount of area resulting in the greatest degree of resistance. Each subsequent shell incorporates a greater area resulting in lower resistance. This finally reaches a point where the additional shells offer little resistance to the ground surround- ing the ground electrode.

#### macmikeman

· Senile Member
I make all the electrons line up for their Flu shots
Joined
·
36,976 Posts
It is way more than 6 ft to the poco transformer, and even farther to the poco overcurrent disconnecting break gizmo you see about every other mile or so. Since that is the only real thing all them rods are good for, I would say it is good enough to put the rod next to the water pipe anyway....

#### macmikeman

· Senile Member
I make all the electrons line up for their Flu shots
Joined
·
36,976 Posts
Ground rods are very important for the safety of the home and the people in it. They also help dissipate the lightning when using one of these fancy whole house surge suppressors that I will add to your service change for just \$279 more.

Or at least that's what I tell my customers.
\$499, you leave too much on the ground.

#### macmikeman

· Senile Member
I make all the electrons line up for their Flu shots
Joined
·
36,976 Posts
Schussh. Listen to me. I am trying to help you get that van.

I just got my new one. The Adrian shelves are not exactly the same depth so now I am stuck trying to figure out where everything is going to go.

#### macmikeman

· Senile Member
I make all the electrons line up for their Flu shots
Joined
·
36,976 Posts
Wouldn't fit under the garage doors. 9' max.

#### macmikeman

· Senile Member
I make all the electrons line up for their Flu shots
Joined
·
36,976 Posts
Guess I screwed up. I could have asked you about it first, but I couldn't find you.

#### macmikeman

· Senile Member
I make all the electrons line up for their Flu shots
Joined
·
36,976 Posts
Oh man, BBQ is right, Now I am talking to myself. I must be bat something or other crazy......:laughing:

#### Celtic

Joined
·
5,798 Posts
I know 8 ft from rod to rod but never heard from rod to water main. Interesting lol
It's 6 feet.

Edit: Actually after rereading 250.53 there is no minimum spacing for grounding electrodes of the same system. This is one of those things I was told coming up and apparently never checked for myself.

You guys need to crack open a code book and stop believing everything someone tells you...frankly, it's embarassing.

Go read 250.53(A)(3) and 250.53(B)and see what the NEC actually says.

#### Celtic

Joined
·
5,798 Posts
No **** I know it's 6 ft but if YOU looked in the code book you would see it says not (LESS) than 6 ft smart guy. If you knew what you were talking about you would know to go a lil extra than touch the border. :thumbsup:

Settle down ...you have no idea what you are saying...lets revisit it:

I know 8 ft from rod to rod ..l
No **** I know it's 6 ft
You know it's 8' and it's 6' :laughing:

Don't go getting all hostile with me after I showed you the proper section.

#### Celtic

Joined
·
5,798 Posts
Ok cornball what's your point. I'm not wrong so how you showing me something to begin with. Go to sleep
My point is: you appear to be an idiot who cannot tell the difference between 8' and 6'....I thought I made that clear.

How can you possible be correct when you give two different answers to the same question :blink:

:laughing:

Troll on Butch :thumbsup:

#### 480sparky

· I own stock in FotoMat!
Joined
·
39,048 Posts
It has to do with the 'concentric shells of earth' concept. The further apart the electrodes are, the better they function.

#### Celtic

Joined
·
5,798 Posts
U must b a helperr lol because both answers pass inspection. I though I made that clear to you idiot. Looks to me so did sparky lol :thumbup: aight im out. Keep thinking it through
Both do pass inspection ~ obviously...
but that was not the question...
you cannot say I know it's 8' and ...
then say I know it's 6'....
[after I posted the article for you ]...
There IS a minimum distance and it's NOT the 8' that you "know".
You get no gold star for that :no:

You get called to the mat for not knowing what you say you say know....aka, BS'ing....and you did.

Like I said...settle down and go crack the code book open before you start telling anyone else "what you know" :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

#### Edrick

· Registered
Joined
·
1,528 Posts
So we got 8', 6' and no minimum. So what is the final answer. What is the minimum between rods and what is the minimum between water main and rod?

I think we've gathered that there's no minimum between rod and main but what about rod and rod?

#### piperunner

· ANY MONKEY CAN RUN!
Joined
·
1,768 Posts
Well this is for your info brothers your all looking at the NEC which is a joke minimal
90 percent of the engineers today need this but they don't know what there doing some say .

30 foot between rods if your near a cold water pipe 3 foot no less

If your near the foundation footers 3 foot no less .

So here we go lets see what sergeant major BBQ or corporal MTW has to say ?

This is due to the magnetic field that's extending out in shells passed the ground rod which is just like a antenna in the air . Basically its magnetic lines outward into mother earth by minute current flow in that rod .

If the Mag lines cross your over lapping the field of ground plane of installed multiple rods effective area of magnetic field around the rod or rods into the earths soil you don't want that . Its a cancelled effect of there shrouded field of coverage in the earths soil to be effective and actually work when needed . There is a flow of current which passes to earth 100 percent all the time its so small it can not be tested with a clamp but put a milliamp meter on a rod and on some jobs I have seen 10 amps on a rod were theres a problem with the electrical install . Sometimes theres a reason why we do things the correct way voltage balance lighting protection static current flow in the system .
Over lapping also effects current flow when its time to discharge into the earth plus it screws up the testing guy when he does a fall of potential test .

For the ones who think resistance doesn't matter and that rods are just for a lighting strike your wrong .

So even if the NEC says nothing about distance there wrong .

That would include the resistance of rods or rod distance from other grounded metal objects that some think is not
needed because they think the NEC is the word of god .

Trust me the NEC is guide to a minimal install so install it were it says
do it per the NEC and have a great day .:thumbup:

#### bobelectric

· Registered
Joined
·
7,976 Posts
Piperunner. Interesting. Maybe for data centers and cell towers. Commercial and home,?

1 - 20 of 130 Posts