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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do you use crimp sleeves on your grounds? Buchannans or Ideals? What crimp tool do you use? The copper Buchannan's are supposed to be crimped with the C-24 "Press Sure" tool, and the yellow chromated steel Ideal's are supposed to be crimped with the die in their line pliers. That's what I'm learning, anyhow. I like to use the Buchannan press tool for all of them.
What do you like for grounds?

 

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I've never used them. The companies I've worked for didn't buy them. I have always hated them with a passion though, because when I came upon them, the installer would cut all the grounds (except the one he used as a tail) to about 1 1/2" to 2" long :censored: . I know you don't do that yourself, but it's left a bad taste in my mouth.

I would just as soon use a regular wirenut. One less thing in my pouch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I know that the crimp sleeves are hated by most people that have to take them off. I have a method to take them off, which involves nipping them top to bottom with a pair of dikes. Greenies just don't work very well in gang boxes.

 
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True! I've never put them on, only removed them-and thats not all that bad-its just respliceing the super-short wires. Do you find them faster then a standard wirenut?
 

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Marc, you must have seen my reply over at Mike Holt's.

On the rare occasion that I need to remove a ground crimp I do exactly as you describe. But really, how often do you really need to remove a crimp and undo a splice? More often then not you are adding a wire. Then I just add another crimp.

Like I said, the folks crying about crimps are crying about an unworkmanlike installation, not the crimps themselves. They just use the crimp as a scapegoat.
It is not the crimp's fault that the installer only left 2" of tail out of the crimp. Or that all the other grounds in the box are only 1" beyond the box edge.
I see this just as much with greenies as I do with crimps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Do you find them faster then a standard wirenut?
Faster? I don't know. It depends on what you get used to, I guess. I'd say that I can put on a crimp about as fast as you can twist on a wire nut, so it's about a wash in that regard. Cost wise, there's no race. The new rubberized wire nuts that I'm using now retail to the customer for about 28 cents, and the crimp sleeves are about 3 cents.
 

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SPEEDY:

As I have said residential is not my forte, when I did residential we used wirenuts for everything.

As for removing them DIKES as Marc said, I have seen where the installer cut the conductors too short on many occasions, but that bad workmanship not a comment on the barrel.

I don't like them but I do believe it is an old electrician thing. I was going to do a test with them this week.


Utilizing number 12 AWG

Proper connection barrel
Proper connection wirenut
Improper connection barrel
Improper connection wirenut.

Run 200 amps threw the connections and IR them.

Not sure I will prove anything but I like doing fun things.

If nothing happens I'll hit them with 500 amps then 1,000, 2,000 ECT sooner or later something will give.
 

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Speedy, I cede your point. I guess it is unreasonable to blame the crimp, but I have literally NEVER come upon one that the installer left a reasonable amount of wire. Is it a workmanship issue? Sure. I'll still be unreasonable, though:whistling2: . Hell, I don't even expect 6"-thats a relatively new rule, but is 3-4" too much to ask for?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Run 200 amps threw the connections and IR them.

Not sure I will prove anything but I like doing fun things.

If nothing happens I'll hit them with 5000 amps then 1,000, 2,000 ECT sooner or later something will give.
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!

I'd like to see some copper and steel sleeves used, with the associated tooling for each. I'd be willing to FedEx you the materials and tooling, if you needed.
 

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I found the 6" free conductor rule in the '96 NEC-I thought it was newer than that. When was that rule introduced? (Brian, thats your cue)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Instructions from the two sizes of copper Buchannan crimp sleeves:



Note that it does say to "insulate" the completed splice, and to "cut flush" the conductors at the end of the connector. :whistling2:
 

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WOW. I never noticed the "Alternate tools" listing on for those. Would you look at that.....regular old linesman's with a crimper.....LEGAL TO USE FOR BUCHANAN's.

I'll have to dig out a pack of new Ideal crimps. I had an issue with someone a few years ago and had to prove no special crimper was required. This is how I know for fact you can use a lineman's pliers (with a built in crimper).


I have to say with all humility. I like to think I make a darn good splice.

Here is my procedure:

I bring all the conductors beyond the face of the box at least the width of my hand, plus the length of my thumb. Picture a hitchhiker's hand laid sideways.
That is all the conductors, but...I leave all the grounds longer.
I then twist the grounds at about the point of the cut wires; cut off all but the number of devices in the box; crimp them; then fold the splice all the way to the back of the box leaving the tail(s) out.
I then cut the ground tail the same length as all the others.
I then loop the conductors and fold them all in.
This leaves the grounds as long as all the others for future re-do's and/or box changes, does NOT take any longer than any other way I have tried, and is very clean since only the grounds needed are coming out of the box.
This also makes for a cleaner and easier device make up later since all the wires are the same.

I had a boss who used to do it this way BUT he never folded the ground splice back before cutting the device tail. This kept the double twisted ground out with the device and was pain to work with.
 

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Loacal code here in Ca. requires that you use barrel crimps with a "proper" crimping tool. Wire nuts a not allowed.

As mentioned before code addresses the length of of the twist of the ground wire, unfortunately not enough "electricians" have had to go back and rework their own make ups otherwise this wouldn't be happening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I like to use them for all my motor connections, but only with the 4 way crimper.
Scott
I can see where that might be of some benefit, because the pecker-head on a motor is so small (cubic inch wise). I've tended to crimp ring terminals on the motor leads and the power leads, and couple them with #10 x 3/8 bolts and nuts. For big motors, I like to use the preinsulated pedestal lugs (Polaris, NSI, etc.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ideal In-Sure push in connector..
I've got a baggie of them on the truck that a salesman gave me. They're Ideal's version of the Wago. The really long one's put me in mind of a harmonica.
 
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