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Industrial Mostly, Panels and drives
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long story short, I started a new industrial job a few months ago. At this point, it's a bit of a **** show as I am the first electrician in this buildings short 2 year history. There is a long history of short cuts here already and one I have never really had to deal with -

Where and when are ESA certifications needed? I am assuming always for every panel in here.

R&D seems to have been run with a "were research we don't count" and their panels are beyond bad.
156442


Basically, I am saying if something does happen and these are not inspecting insurance might not pay, and the ministry will add fines. Trying to clear through the mud of online searches and not calling directly to get my new employer in trouble, how bad is that?

At least the line equipment seems to have all its inspections only a couple things are kind of sketchy (every motor is wired soow regardless if its on a robot)

anyone know a link directly to a law? I have done a bit of a search but nothing dealing with canada sprang to the top

At the very least hopefully someone gets a chuckle at the picture.

Shortly after that picture I found that the heaters were 1000W being controlled by 300W controllers.....I bandaided that too but damn....
 

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Just trying to get home
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That's two years?!?

Wow...that looks like my 35 year-old panels.

edit: throwing in some pneumatics under the first gen DDC, anyway
 

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Industrial Maintenance Electrician
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yeah this is a big yikes from me. I wouldn't want my name anywhere near that Control Panel
 

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Just trying to get home
Site Engineer
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I think I see a hotdog in there...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That's two years?!?

Wow...that looks like my 35 year-old panels.

edit: throwing in some pneumatics under the first gen DDC, anyway
Yeah, I've been told its been on fire twice. Makes sense with the heater controllers they were using...
 

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Just trying to get home
Site Engineer
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I like that big 'ole glob of electrical tape center-front...black wires. Classy...
 

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Just trying to get home
Site Engineer
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Long story short, I started a new industrial job a few months ago. At this point, it's a bit of a **** show as I am the first electrician in this buildings short 2 year history. There is a long history of short cuts here already and one I have never really had to deal with -

Where and when are ESA certifications needed? I am assuming always for every panel in here.

R&D seems to have been run with a "were research we don't count" and their panels are beyond bad. View attachment 156442

Basically, I am saying if something does happen and these are not inspecting insurance might not pay, and the ministry will add fines. Trying to clear through the mud of online searches and not calling directly to get my new employer in trouble, how bad is that?

At least the line equipment seems to have all its inspections only a couple things are kind of sketchy (every motor is wired soow regardless if its on a robot)

anyone know a link directly to a law? I have done a bit of a search but nothing dealing with canada sprang to the top

At the very least hopefully someone gets a chuckle at the picture.

Shortly after that picture I found that the heaters were 1000W being controlled by 300W controllers.....I bandaided that too but damn....
What’s the problem? Hold my drink, I’ll get it workin in a little.
 

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Light Bender
plumber
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ESA has a program for maintenance called the CSS, continual Safety Service where all electrical work is logged and the inspector comes in a few times a year.

But bringing them in now will probably get your employer a defect list to repair first.
 

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Electrical Contractor
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If it was built to an engineered spec and the engineer signed of on it it does not need to be certified.

I doubt it looked like that on day one. Read the riot act to your "troubleshooters".
 

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Whew. That's ... some photo.

The CSS is likely a good option. The site should have some method of handling maintenance and like-like swap outs, but that photo would be for a control panel. All those types of changes would be under the panels own approval. Maybe under the CSS or maintenance some of that could be covered but calling an inspector in now will likely just flag the entire panel for lack of info and be done with it.

At this point i just can't imagine anyone there will be comfortable saying it's built to any sort of drawing/spec or qualification. It really should just be overhauled before any inspector gets requested in.

You can fit a lot in a R&D setup with an engineer and trained staff... but that would then essentially be a temporary setup used qualified personnel in a restricted area not really connected to a mains supply... but a panel that has been in use connected and modified for 2 year is not that.
 

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Long story short, I started a new industrial job a few months ago. At this point, it's a bit of a **** show as I am the first electrician in this buildings short 2 year history. There is a long history of short cuts here already and one I have never really had to deal with -

Where and when are ESA certifications needed? I am assuming always for every panel in here.

R&D seems to have been run with a "were research we don't count" and their panels are beyond bad. View attachment 156442

Basically, I am saying if something does happen and these are not inspecting insurance might not pay, and the ministry will add fines. Trying to clear through the mud of online searches and not calling directly to get my new employer in trouble, how bad is that?

At least the line equipment seems to have all its inspections only a couple things are kind of sketchy (every motor is wired soow regardless if its on a robot)

anyone know a link directly to a law? I have done a bit of a search but nothing dealing with canada sprang to the top

At the very least hopefully someone gets a chuckle at the picture.

Shortly after that picture I found that the heaters were 1000W being controlled by 300W controllers.....I bandaided that too but damn....
We have the same panel! If you need it, here's the schematic:



Funniest-schematic-ever-lg.jpg
 

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industrial E,I&C
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3,339 Posts
Honestly it would only take 3 days to reverse engineer the panel, Fix all the problems and tidy up the mess. I would be happy that the back panel isn't rusted so that's saved a days work.
 

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Electrician
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1,633 Posts
Someone probably left an e-stop off somewhere and the "electrical guy" in the company came in, re-wired it, and got everything running.
 

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Electrical Contractor
Trying to retire or at least slow down a bit, but life not cooperating
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4,810 Posts
I think the 'magic smoke' containment field has to be upgraded.

You will probably have more than a few of these throughout the building.

i_have_no_clue_52364889364502.jpg
 
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Industrial Mostly, Panels and drives
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
ESA has a program for maintenance called the CSS, continual Safety Service where all electrical work is logged and the inspector comes in a few times a year.

But bringing them in now will probably get your employer a defect list to repair first.
Yeah Dofasco and larger plants here use this system. This place does not do enough work or modifications regularly (I think) to justify this. Most of the installs have ESA in the regular line, or a few SPE stickers but this one corner seems to have been neglected, forgotten and left to burn
 

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Industrial Mostly, Panels and drives
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Whew. That's ... some photo.

The CSS is likely a good option. The site should have some method of handling maintenance and like-like swap outs, but that photo would be for a control panel. All those types of changes would be under the panels own approval. Maybe under the CSS or maintenance some of that could be covered but calling an inspector in now will likely just flag the entire panel for lack of info and be done with it.

At this point i just can't imagine anyone there will be comfortable saying it's built to any sort of drawing/spec or qualification. It really should just be overhauled before any inspector gets requested in.

You can fit a lot in a R&D setup with an engineer and trained staff... but that would then essentially be a temporary setup used qualified personnel in a restricted area not really connected to a mains supply... but a panel that has been in use connected and modified for 2 year is not that.
Yeah, I am working towards re-design and getting a new pane built. This basically came from "we want to control the motors with VFD's what will take" to "You know your light curtains don't work right?" to finding a 1000W heater controlled by a 300W rated controller.....It's been a fun week.

At this point, I am going to start here and do each of the 5 or so pieces of equipment one by one. But this corner of the factory should really be condemned. I was curious how much of my comment "insurance wouldn't pay a dime if they found out none of this was certified" held water.
 
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