[billymac93]

Hello all. I am an industrial electrician by trade working in Ontario Canada. I have recently began work for a new employer who, despite being in business for a few decades, has no electrical PM program. The task of establishing one has been dumped in my lap. Where to begin? My first thought was to scour the equipment work histories and/or work orders but this documentation is scattered at best. Anyone out there been part of the development or resurgence of a PM program. I'd like to hear some ideas to incorporate into mine.

 

[Almost Retired]

starter contacts, find some down time and look at them
if they are pitted, look at the process and see how often they are started and stopped
contacts made since about the 80's can take some pitting and still keep going, dont bother trying to file or clean,
just replace if bad enough, they will flash over and go phase to phase if bad enough

lighting, go around and see how many bulbs are out
guess at a time for how often and say go check for bulbs out

emergency lighting, go do the tests and find out if the batteries are still good

look for things that are not part of the process and see if they need repair/upgrade

check google and see if you can find some recommendations

after a while you will see from experience what needs to be on the pm

 

[brian john]

How deep do you want to go into EPM?

Inspections of energized equipment?
Shutdowns?
Clean and test?
Test circuit breakers
Megger equipment and conductors
Ductor/microhm/DLRO contacts

NETA and NFPA have documents for the maintenance of electrical equipment

https://www.netaworld.org/standards/ansi-neta-mts

NFPA 70B: Standard for Electrical Equipment Maintenance

<p>1.1 Scope.<br /><br />This standard covers the preventive maintenance of electrical, electronic, and communications systems and equipment.<br /><br /></p>

www.nfpa.org

 

[SWDweller]

Do they have LOTO and Arc Flash? Are you wearing FR clothing? What safety programs exist.
Starting from scratch I would look into the kinds and types of equipment.
What does the MFG say for PM for each piece?
Make a list of what you need and acquire the parts. Talk to others, is there a time when machine A can be taken down and locked out?
I have worked like a dog over holidays because that was the only time plants would shut down or reduce operations.

 

[CAUSA]

As stated by SWDweller,

The schedule aspect of it will be the most critical. This also includes the time to perform the Maintenance and cleaning process properly.

Be careful, sometimes if the work is done too rushed or poorly. There are more breakdown’s.

The whole plant/Management needs to be on board with the time line and not try to jump the gun to restart the production.

 

[mburtis]

Well first thing off the top of my head is go ask around and see what's broke down all the time. Maybe there are certain types of equipment that give the particular process issues. Or a certain piece of equipment that's just a pos. The goal is uptime not massive stacks of pointless paperwork.

Next thing is to look at criticality. If a piece of equipment can blow up and not take the plant down let it alone for later when you have the time. Worry about the stuff that causes shutdowns first, them move on to less critical but expensive equipment, then save the rest for those rainy day projects.

 

[micromind]

Be prepared for some serious resistance from management. They almost always see preventive maintenance as a waste of time and money. The vast majority of these idiots would much rather pay $1000 to get a broken machine running again than pay $100 to keep it running.

Yes, they really are that stupid.........

 

[Mbit]

Vibes

 

[Bourbon County]

You didn't state; are you going to be setting up a PM system for the building systems like HVAC, air compressors, boilers, phones, networks, etc, or just the process equipment?

Expanding on what mburtis said; inventory every asset (equipment) that you will be responsible for. Determine the criticality of each asset and rank them in maybe 3 categories, A,B, and C. A rank A asset is one that is absolutely critical for plant operation. Size is not necessarily a factor here. It can be something as small as a fractional HP feed pump or mixer that if failed will shut the whole operation down up to a motor of hundreds of HP and their associated control and starting components. If there is already a redundant back-up asset in place like 2 or more pumps that pump into a common manifold and the system will operate without one, this is not a rank A asset. These are the items that should get most of the PM activity.

Rank B assets would be ones that are mostly an inconvenience if failed, ones that would not shut down the entire operation. Also look at what collateral damage would be caused if a B rank asset failed; if it's like a coolant pump and would eventually take out an A rank if it failed, it too would be an A rank.

Rank C assets would be "run to fail", and not really worthy of much PM attention.

You mentioned looking for documentation for past breakdowns, might be a good time to recommend a CMMS system. They are expensive and you will get push back from management because of the cost and push back from the maintenance crew for having to use it. Once set up and breakdowns start being documented in the database, they can be quite valuable for identifying the problem children and repeat offenders.

Inventory your PPE as mentioned before, do you have blast suits, kevlar jackets, gloves, etc? Inventory your tools; in addition to all the meters, a thermal camera and motor circuit analyzer are extremely valuable. They both require some operator training, but can be invaluable in spotting potential problems before anything fails.

Inventory your human assets, how many guys are trained and competent to work on how many different assets? Avoid the pitfall of only having one guy that can fix a specialized asset. That guy will take vacations and may even have some sick leave. Establish competency levels and level up the training for other guys.

This part is painfully slow, but needs to be done. Establish critical spare parts for rank A and some rank B assets. Buy the parts and set up a stores system to ensure they are on hand if needed. Pay particular attention to any OEM part that is imported, they can take months to get in.

 

[brian john]

How deep do you want to go into EPM?

Inspections of energized equipment?
Shutdowns?
Clean and test?
Test circuit breakers
Megger equipment and conductors
Ductor/microhm/DLRO contacts

NETA and NFPA have documents for the maintenance of electrical equipment

https://www.netaworld.org/standards/ansi-neta-mts

NFPA 70B: Standard for Electrical Equipment Maintenance

<p>1.1 Scope.<br /><br />This standard covers the preventive maintenance of electrical, electronic, and communications systems and equipment.<br /><br /></p>

www.nfpa.org

A good starting point

Should have added once you determine your level of maintenance I would start with an Infrared Survey completing a list of all equipment scanned, location, type, size voltage, check for NEC violations during the scan, KOs missing, mismatched fuses, and such.

 

[paulengr]

Hello all. I am an industrial electrician by trade working in Ontario Canada. I have recently began work for a new employer who, despite being in business for a few decades, has no electrical PM program. The task of establishing one has been dumped in my lap. Where to begin? My first thought was to scour the equipment work histories and/or work orders but this documentation is scattered at best. Anyone out there been part of the development or resurgence of a PM program. I'd like to hear some ideas to incorporate into mine.

Yes.

There are standards. Read NEMA AB4 first. Create an account on NEMA.org, it’s free. Also download the ICS series. Both of these contain excellent (as in pictures) documentation of how and when to PM molded case breakers and basic gear like MCCs.

Second go to NFPA. Sign up again. This time read NFPA 70B again for free but you can only get a PDF if you pay for it. Also look at NFPA 780.

Now the traps:

1. Avoid NETA MTS. NETA is a group of electrical testing companies that don’t do repairs and make tons of testing recommendations that are entirely self serving.

2. These are very generic standards. 60% of failures are determined by environmental site specific conditions. So you have to determine PM schedules and what you do by local conditions.

3. Breakers and disconnects in particular are pure hidden failures. A breaker may actually operate for a few minutes, worst case, out of an entire 30-50 year life. Most of the time the bearings sit under spring tension but don’t move. Ever heard of seizing up? Also ever heard of electronic devices with hundreds of solder joints suddenly stop working? Thats the issue.

4. Another issue with all electrical equipment is that new information surfaces over time but manufacturers don’t send out documentation updates. Head over to EPRI. Anything over ten years old on there is free. You don’t want to buy the new stuff (tens of thousands). This gives VERY detailed data on old AK, ABB, etc. breakers.

5. Nolan er al looked at failure rates and found something like 5 different failure patterns. Electrical only has two. The vast majority like circuit boards are pure random failures. Testing can cause more damage than it detects because human error while testing is a factor. Lubrication issues are anther failure mode. Wear in heavy use starter,8/ nother

 

[mburtis]

Bourbon County gave you an excellent starting point.

One thing to keep in mind is the size of operation. If your in a huge factory with a hundred maintenance electricians running around than your going to want all the expensive toys and a sophisticated computer software to track it all. If your in a small plant with 1 or 2 maintenance guys you can probably write it on a whiteboard above the coffee maker. Keep it as simple as you can while making it as advanced as you need.

 

[mburtis]

Something I've struggled with is balancing the value of testing with the risk of monkeying with the equipment. I have nfpa70b which I think is pretty good, I also have the Neta book, which might be good if your equipment warrants it but mine doesn't.

A lot of testing that might be done on a pm could involves disconnecting equipment or reterminating wires or other work which I call disruptive to the system. For the size of the equipment around here I've decided it's not worth the risk of taking loose a connection I know is working to perform a test (megger a motor for example) to then have to reterminate the wires. Sure it's fine a few times but doing it once a year seems like asking for problems to me.

As with everything it's a balancing act of risk vs reward. Don't do things just because some book says you should. If your doing a test and don't really know what that test is telling you, there's no reason to do the test.

 

[canbug]

In Canada, you need to follow CSA.
Z463-18
Maintenance of electrical systems

Product

Maintenance of electrical systems

www.csagroup.org

It's all laid out what and how often you need perform maintenance.

Tim

 

[SWDweller]

I am no fan of infrared testing. Most places will not let you open up equipment under a load. Arch flash and all that. Unless of course there are viewing windows installed. I would put vibration testing high on the list for rotating equipment. I worked for a place that had over 100 buildings. The mechinical dept bought a vibration tester. They epoxied washers on the equipment so the test was always taken running and at the same place. They hired a woman to do the data collection and within a year she knew more about the conditions of the rotating equipment that most anyone else.

 

[brian john]

I am no fan of infrared testing. Most places will not let you open up equipment under a load. Arch (ARC) flash and all that. Unless of course there are viewing windows installed. I would put vibration testing high on the list for rotating equipment. I worked for a place that had over 100 buildings. The mechinical dept bought a vibration tester. They epoxied washers on the equipment so the test was always taken running and at the same place. They hired a woman to do the data collection and within a year she knew more about the conditions of the rotating equipment that most anyone else.

Been doing IR for over 40 years, be safe wear appropriate PPE, and do your job.

 

[paulengr]

Something I've struggled with is balancing the value of testing with the risk of monkeying with the equipment. I have nfpa70b which I think is pretty good, I also have the Neta book, which might be good if your equipment warrants it but mine doesn't.

A lot of testing that might be done on a pm could involves disconnecting equipment or reterminating wires or other work which I call disruptive to the system. For the size of the equipment around here I've decided it's not worth the risk of taking loose a connection I know is working to perform a test (megger a motor for example) to then have to reterminate the wires. Sure it's fine a few times but doing it once a year seems like asking for problems to me.

As with everything it's a balancing act of risk vs reward. Don't do things just because some book says you should. If your doing a test and don't really know what that test is telling you, there's no reason to do the test.

You are on the right track. I do a lot of motor PMs both offline and online. I rarely do it right at the motor. Some have IEC or some other style terminals at the peckerheads but most don’t. So I usually do it at the drive/starter or secondary disconnect. If it is air gapped (no semiconductors) with no lightning arresters or capacitors you can do it with no disconnecting. We test insulation resistance, coil to coil resistance, and reactance phase to phase offline. Online subharmonics for loose rotor bars, air gap eccentricity (mechanical issues), power analysis for connection issues, contactors, harmonics, overloads, load, and performance issues. Doing this can be a pain setting up or can be easy depending on the equipment arrangement. On some drives (Siemens in particular) the construction is so bad that disconnection risks destroying the equipment. We’ve had a few that we had to stop testing. We also ran into this with some switchgear where the breakers were bolted in with drilled and tapped connections and the bus bars were worn out from years of testing. Plus even the mist meticulous testing companies are going to have small issues during testing.

NEMA AB4 takes seconds to do the basic testing. Doing a primary injection test though on molded case breakers is goofy at best. So we try to not go below 600-800 A and stick to critical or distribution breakers. Roughly half the failures are mechanical and half are trip units for this.

With any PM there are three types. Lubrication related work like oil changes on oil lube bearings are necessary or failures are rapid. Then there are predictive tests like IR or UV scans, oil analysis, and vibration. As an example transformer oil tests give you 12-18 months early warning but Megger tests even with temperature correction at best measures current, possibly deteriorating conditions with zero predictive power. The third type are functional tests like breaker current injection designed to detect equipment that has already failed but is difficult to detect in service.

But you can’t detect every problem and none are a replacement for basic surveillance (walk around and look). But somehow visual inspections that make up 80%+ of inspections are glossed over.

 

[Bourbon County]

Since this company has operated for many years without a PM system, obviously someone in the ownership or upper management had an epiphany that it was needed and can see the value. Hopefully for you, that means they will be supportive of your efforts and with the $ required.

As I see it, there are 2 distinct challenges you will face; one is developing a PM system that includes items to be checked, how to check, and the timing or intervals between checks. The other is actually a culture change among the maintenance folks. If this place has operated for some time without a program, you will get push back from them. They won't readily accept that they have gone so long without a PM program and now you are asking them to do something different and additional to their duties. It's human nature to resist change.

I'll list a couple of pitfalls I've personally seen and suggest how to avoid them. First of all, involve the maintenance crew from the beginning, seek their ideas and experiences on items that need to be checked. Don't give them a PM check sheet that contains items they can't possibly do, these items tend to get "pencil whipped" and serve absolutely no purpose. An example I've seen was a check sheet that said "check motor bearings"; if motor bearings degrade to the point they can be detected by human senses, it's already failed. Examples of good checks would be something like "clean the cooling fins", or on a TEFC motor, is the fan running and are exhaust ports clean.

I believe it's important to explain the importance of a PM system to the crew when you implement the program. This is the point where plant management/supervision can greatly help by supporting you.

Another pitfall is when someone finds an issue/problem while doing a PM, how to address it. At the very minimum, the supervisor needs to go see the issue with the guy that found it, communication is key here. At that point the scope and urgency of the repair needs to be determined. Does it need immediate attention, can it wait until the weekend or planned shutdown? Are the repair/replacement parts in house or

 

[billymac93]

I thank those who have responded thus far and look forward to more. You have all touched on issues that I have seen here and elsewhere. I am the new guy here but have industrial experience beyond all of my new co-workers: just not here. I've faced the "old guy telling war stories" and the "he's the new guy. What does he know " already ; even from my direct supervisor. This need for a PM program is being driven by his boss so we'll se what happens. The few peers I've talked to appear open to the idea and are willing to accept the idea as dynamic in that it will change as situations and happenstance dictate.

 

[SWDweller]

Breakdowns and the panic that ensues is never any fun. Especially when you find the parts are "out walking around". Meaning the suppliers do not have them or worse.

Something I thought of when I was "new guy" talk to the men and find some small part or substance that for them is hard to get. Cable clean, ty wraps, decent tape etc.
Makes them feel like your helping them. I have always been a fan of hepa vacuums for cleaning. Picks up the dirt and usually does not spread it around. I hate that. Use to work for an stupid visor, that his concept was to blow everything out, who cares where the dirt goes. Then when the transformer fans turned on they just sucked the dirt out of the air and back to where you just removed it. I am in a hot climate and we run dry type transformer fans all of the time. They really do last longer.

Also watch for MSDS. I have worked places if it is not on their current MSDS list, (20 years old and products are not made any more) you can not buy the product.