[DMILL]

Hey guys, I have a question about grounding a hot tub, heres some info.

We are roughing in a house with a garage 200A service. The owner is installing 2 hot tubs. They say you have to have a seperate ground for the motor casing...

My question is, do I have to run that ground all the way back to the main panel where the motor is fed from (150' Away), or can I ground it to the main water line? (30' Away).

What does the current NEC Code say? Can you please include Article #'s.

Thank you!

 

[theloop82]

You would run the extra ground back to the ground bus on the panel you are originating the circuit out of. In fact I beleive it would be illegal to derive a separate ground just for a single circuit due to the chance of a difference of potential on your grounds.

 

[therain]

If you talking about bonding the motor look at 680.74 (2011 NEC®

 

[chicken steve]

In a nutshell, the theory is gfci's work best with better grounding, ergo the more #8 solid you can fan out of that G-bar on the side of the H-tub control panel , the more safety is enhanced .....~CS~

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Hey guys, I have a question about grounding a hot tub, heres some info.

We are roughing in a house with a garage 200A service. The owner is installing 2 hot tubs. They say you have to have a seperate ground for the motor casing...

My question is, do I have to run that ground all the way back to the main panel where the motor is fed from (150' Away), or can I ground it to the main water line? (30' Away).

What does the current NEC Code say? Can you please include Article #'s.

Thank you!

You do not need to run the bond wire back to the panel. Nowhere in art 680 is that required-- not even for a pool. If there is a metal piping system in the house for the water then tie the motor bond to the water pipe.

 

[jza]

In a nutshell, the theory is gfci's work best with better grounding, ergo the more #8 solid you can fan out of that G-bar on the side of the H-tub control panel , the more safety is enhanced .....~CS~

Not saying you're wrong, but how can this be when a GFCI has very little to do with grounding?

 

[chicken steve]

What Denny said....:thumbsup:

for some reason there's many of us that are led to believe we're safer if we tie an ECG around our big toe , and connect it to a serving Xfomer

our trades adage "all grounding is not bonding, and all bonding is not grounding" is probably the most misunderstood of all electrical concepts, evident in it's hashing out in 250 to the nth degree....



~CS~

 

[chicken steve]

Not saying you're wrong, but how can this be when a GFCI has very little to do with grounding?

Good Q

One can hold onto the load noodle in one hand, and the load hot in the other and do the chicken dance all day long Jza

Up until (you guess please) happens

~CS~

 

[jza]

Good Q

One can hold onto the load noodle in one hand, and the load hot in the other and do the chicken dance all day long Jza

Up until (you guess please) happens

~CS~

Still don't understand. Are you saying you could be standing in the hot tub holding the line and neutral, receiving a shock, and that a properly grounded tub would prevent this?

 

[Pete m.]

Still don't understand. Are you saying you could be standing in the hot tub holding the line and neutral, receiving a shock, and that a properly grounded tub would prevent this?

What I think CS is saying is that as long as the current going out on the ungrounded conductor matches the current returning on the grounded conductor is within 4 to 6 mA the GFCI will continue to deliver current until some of that current finds a separate path to cause an imbalance.

That "other" path is usually a grounded surface.

Pete

 

[chicken steve]

Still don't understand. Are you saying you could be standing in the hot tub holding the line and neutral, receiving a shock, and that a properly grounded tub would prevent this?

Rather the reverse Jza, the better bonded said tub is back to the serving GFCI, the better it will function

Perhaps a 'toon would clear it up?

~CS~

 

[chicken steve]

What I think CS is saying is that as long as the current going out on the ungrounded conductor matches the current returning on the grounded conductor is within 4 to 6 mA the GFCI will continue to deliver current until some of that current finds a separate path to cause an imbalance.

That "other" path is usually a grounded surface.

Pete

Thank you Pete....:thumbsup:
~CS~

 

[Service Call]

The OP hasn't responded. Are we talking ground or bond?

 

[electricmanscott]

The OP hasn't responded. Are we talking ground or bond?

Add to that hot tub or hydromasssage/whirlpool/ jacuzzi tub

 

[DMILL]

The motor bond, sorry guys.

 

[Service Call]

A bond is not a ground. It does "not" need to go to a panel or a water line. Unless you want to bond that water line.

 

[electricmanscott]

A bond is not a ground. It does need to go to a panel or a water line. Unless you want to bond that water line.

Does NOT need to go to a panel.

 

[chicken steve]

If you talking about bonding the motor look at 680.74 (2011 NEC®

Pretty much details the bonding of any proximal metallics and/or earth as 680.26,43 &42 do, with a shall not to the ocpd(s) Gbar



~CS~

 

[chicken steve]

Does NOT need to go to a panel.

shall not ....

Making a GEC to the h20 line, as well as another #8 bond to a tub h20 line is asking for trouble....

~CS~

 

[Dennis Alwon]

A bond is not a ground. It does need to go to a panel or a water line. Unless you want to bond that water line.

The bond for the tub is to keep the water the same potential as the tub. Now I was thinking this was a hydromassage tub where there is water connected to it. If it is a hot tub then you need an equipotential bond unless your area hs adopted the TIA for hot tubs.