Grounding of toggle switches

11708 Views 26 Replies 11 Participants Last post by bobelectric, May 17, 2007

walkerj

Discussion Starter · May 16, 2007

I would like to know your feelings on the grounding of basic toggle switches in an NM installation using non-metallic boxes. I was always told there was no need since all that was being grounded was a small piece of aluminum. Your thoughts are appreciated.

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

Speedy Petey

· #2 · May 16, 2007

Famous last words..."I was told...."

404.9 Provisions for General-Use Snap Switches
(A) Faceplates Faceplates provided for snap switches mounted in boxes and other enclosures shall be installed so as to completely cover the opening and, where the switch is flush mounted, seat against the finished surface.
(B) Grounding Snap switches, including dimmer and similar control switches, shall be effectively grounded and shall provide a means to ground metal faceplates, whether or not a metal faceplate is installed. Snap switches shall be considered effectively grounded if either of the following conditions is met:
(1) The switch is mounted with metal screws to a metal box or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for grounding devices.
(2) An equipment grounding conductor or equipment bonding jumper is connected to an equipment grounding termination of the snap switch.
Exception to (B): Where no grounding means exists within the snap-switch enclosure or where the wiring method does not include or provide an equipment ground, a snap switch without a grounding connection shall be permitted for replacement purposes only. A snap switch wired under the provisions of this exception and located within reach of earth, grade, conducting floors, or other conducting surfaces shall be provided with a faceplate of nonconducting, noncombustible material or shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

See less See more

walkerj

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 16, 2007

I personally Ground Everything that allows for it, just wondering your feelings.
Down here most EC's use the "I've beenn doin it that way for 30 years and i aint had a problem with it yet" rebuttle.

JohnJ0906

· #4 · May 16, 2007

" So, you've been screwin' it up for 30 years, how about that?"
:laughing:

It's good you're trying to learn the right way.

MDShunk

· #5 · May 16, 2007

walkerj said:
Down here most EC's use the "I've beenn doin it that way for 30 years and i aint had a problem with it yet" rebuttle.

Any my response would be "...and that makes it okay, HOW?"

walkerj

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 16, 2007

I don't belive that it makes it ok. I sometimes wonder if these guys have ever seen a code book. better yet even know how to read it!

walkerj

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 16, 2007

And I haven't been doin it that way for any amt of time. As an apprentice i took most things i was told by my sparky with a grain of salt. I got away from all that REAL QUICK. There are a lot of improperly trained guys doing electrical work in this neck of the woods. it can be quite scary the things that are seen in new construction done by "qualified persons"

JohnJ0906

· #8 · May 16, 2007

Where is "this neck of the woods"?

walkerj

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 16, 2007

Tiger country. Baton rouge area. I'd be surprised if the electrical inspectors in some jurisdictions are much more qualified than a home inspector

brian john

· #10 · May 16, 2007

Where is "this neck of the woods"?

The UNITED STATES, I have traveled a fair bit doing electrical inspections of various types and DOWN HERE ain't got a lock on doing it wrong.

raider1

· #11 · May 16, 2007

Let's throw a wrench into the works. How about the Cheetah System where there is no grounding screw on the switches.:whistling2:

What is everyones opinion of these devices?

Chris

brian john

· #12 · May 16, 2007

When in doubt GROUND.... The importance of correctly grounding/bonding electrical distribution equipment can do be STRESSED enough.

Life safety,,,There are numerous stories on the web (TRUE STORIES) about instances where the lack of a proper bonding to ground of equipment lead to death of an electrician or innocent party.

Speedy Petey

· #13 · May 16, 2007

raider1 said:
Let's throw a wrench into the works. How about the Cheetah System where there is no grounding screw on the switches.:whistling2:

What is everyones opinion of these devices?

Chris

I am not familiar with them, but if they are not grounded, for replacements of the same they would be fine.
For a new installation they would not.

raider1

· #14 · May 16, 2007

Speedy Petey said:
I am not familiar with them, but if they are not grounded, for replacements of the same they would be fine.
For a new installation they would not.

Here is a LINK to the Cheetah system web site. I have had a great deal of discussions with them and other inspectors on the product.

I have already made up my mind on the subject but would love to see others thoughts.

Chris

Speedy Petey

· #15 · May 16, 2007

I think 404.9(B) above says it all. In a new installation they would not be legal.
Even if you use their face plate system, you still need a means to ground a metal plate.

Maybe they got an exemption due to the fact that you MUST use their plates??? That would be all I could see.

yanici

· #16 · May 16, 2007

I can see why Cheetah toggle switches don't need a grounding screw. If you look at the photo, notice that everything, including the 6-32 screw is insulated by plastic. They have a problem with their 20 amp duplex receptacles though. Why are they allowed a #14 back stab connection on a 20 amp rated device. It could never be used, that I can think of, at least not by code.

Mountain Electrician

· #17 · May 16, 2007

raider1 said:
Here is a LINK to the Cheetah system web site. I have had a great deal of discussions with them and other inspectors on the product.

I have already made up my mind on the subject but would love to see others thoughts.

Chris

I am waiting for a free contractors kit friom Cheetah. Once I get my hands on some, I'll let you know what I think.

raider1

· #18 · May 16, 2007

Speedy Petey said:
I think 404.9(B) above says it all. In a new installation they would not be legal.
Even if you use their face plate system, you still need a means to ground a metal plate.

Maybe they got an exemption due to the fact that you MUST use their plates??? That would be all I could see.

My first thought was that they needed to comply with 404.9(B). I brought this to the attention of my building official and also contacted the manufacturer about this problem.

About all you can do to use this product is to ask the AHJ to approve this system as an alternative to the code, due to the fact that you can not install a metal face plate to their devices.

I have looked really close at this system and don't have a problem with the fact that they aren't grounded. If you can't install a metal face plate and there is no metal exposed that could become energized there really is no reason to ground this switch. This is similar to a double insulated motor that doesn't require grounding.

JMHO,

Chris

Speedy Petey

· #19 · May 16, 2007

raider1 said:
I have looked really close at this system and don't have a problem with the fact that they aren't grounded. If you can't install a metal face plate and there is no metal exposed that could become energized there really is no reason to ground this switch. This is similar to a double insulated motor that doesn't require grounding.

This I agree with.
If they got some sort of "bye" with regards to grounding I am sure it is due to the fact that you simply cannot ever use a metal plate.

jason007

· #20 · May 16, 2007

we use cheetah devices all the time there is no ground screw on the switch so we dont/cant ground it we tuck the ground in the box but the cheetah receptacles have a ground screw and we ground those we like cheetah devices use them alot fast and easy

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.