[michiganman]

I am a master electrician in my plant in Michigan. I am having trouble with engineers in the plant opening up live 480v cabinets and working on controls and such in cabinets. What are the rules and laws, also anyways to prevent them from doing such. Thanks

 

[chicken steve]

Does your state have a home page for licensed trades....? ~CS~

 

[Black Dog]

Does your state have a home page for licensed trades....? ~CS~

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(e5...=mcl-act-217-of-1956&queryid=39209&highlight=

 

[AllWIRES]

I am a master electrician in my plant in Michigan. I am having trouble with engineers in the plant opening up live 480v cabinets and working on controls and such in cabinets. What are the rules and laws, also anyways to prevent them from doing such. Thanks

NFPA70e It will give you working clearances and such requirments.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Well, if they're engineers they probably know more than you.....just ask them. :whistling2:

 

[michiganman]

A bill a few years ago requires that you are registered with the state to do any electrical work. A new bill which has stalled Senate Bill 358 Creates exemption in Electrical Licensing law to allow nonlicensed electricians to perform electrical work in manufacturing and mining operations. I would like to know more about the laws for the state of Michigan. Blackdog, thanks for your info, I've read that before. I know more information exists on this...

 

[Magnettica]

You have the 2nd amendment there on Michigan?

 

[Awg-Dawg]

I am a master electrician in my plant in Michigan. I am having trouble with engineers in the plant opening up live 480v cabinets and working on controls and such in cabinets. What are the rules and laws, also anyways to prevent them from doing such. Thanks

If it were me, I would in a roundabout way mention what ALLWIRES said.

NFPA70e It will give you working clearances and such requirments.

After that, Its pretty much, not my circus....not my monkeys.

If someone wants to look, have at it.

 

[btharmy]

Simply inquire of your plant safety director why your facility does not voluntarily conform to the guidelines contained in NFPA70e. If he says "what the heck is NFPA70e?" Then I'm sorry for your situation. Otherwise, he should already know what the rules are and be in a position to enforce those rules with electricians and engineers alike. Or you could just lock all the cabinets and keep the keys for yourself.

 

[madrone48]

Take it to the union.

 

[chicken steve]

Here the loophole is maintenance

Maint men get away with a lot legally, screw up their facility electrical systems, then call a real sparky and don't 'fess up about it

It's very frustrating....

~CS~

 

[wildleg]

safety usually flows from the top down. If the powers that be are not interested in reducing the company's liability for preventable accidents involving damage/downtime/death, then they have not yet joined the 21st century in terms of the culture of electrical safety, and no amount of whining on your part is going to help you, and in which case you just need to do your part, until the point in time when they are forced to do so (presumably because some "engineer" or maintenance person gets burnt up).

 

[Michigan Master]

I was not aware of Senate Bill 358… However Act 217, which is the law both requiring and providing the exceptions to licensing, does not currently reflect SB0358 (see section 338.997 of Act 217).

With regards to 70E it says nothing about licensing, same goes for OSHA (see 1910.399 definition of qualified person and 1910.332(b)(3) for training requirements). The NEC defines a qualified person as "one who has the skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved." And the FPN states, "refer to the NFPA-70E for electrical safety training requirements."

I work for a tier 1 automotive supplier. We require all of our electricians to be licensed, and all apprentices to be registered. We also have a qualifying master electrician who is actively in charge of and responsible for ensuring all installations are compliant with the National Electrical Code; if you look on the application for Electrical Contractor you will see an option under license type requested for Facility Electrical Contractor (factories, schools, hospitals, etc.)

We consider electrical engineers (meaning those with BS in electrical engineering and holding the job title of EE) to be qualified to access panels; they go through all the same electrical safety training as our electricians and must also wear the appropriate PPE. They are often the ones who designed the controls and wrote the PLC program and can be a great asset for troubleshooting assistance; however, they don’t do any wiring (because it’s not pretty). All other engineers are considered unqualified to access electrical panels.

You best bet for solving your problem is likely through your companies Electrical Safety Program which should identify who is considered a qualified electrical worker and who is not. You may need to work with your safety manager; you can find a really good electrical safety program assessment on ESFI.