[al_smelter]

Short cut: time to break out the grinder!!:laughing:

I'm tempted, and could pull it off, but had better not. You guys wouldn't respect me any more.

I am home now, looked it all over, and there is no way a 62 series tandem is going to stab into that 61 series bus. So, they either made a different series (that I can find no mention of), or they made this a rejection style panel. Either way, I'll take the tandems back, reconfigure the loads, and move on.

Why does everything have to be such a b!tch (rhetorical question) ?

 

[Deep Cover]

The Murray, ITE/Siemens, Bryant, Westinghouse, Crouse-Hinds, CHBR style breakers are interchangeable with each other dependent on their listings. Like you, I cannot remember which goes into which, but you seem to making your statement based on parent companies.

I'm pretty sure Murray and Siemens are interchangeable. They may be owned by the same parent company, but are different manufacturers IMO.

 

[Skblay]

But the manufacture says they can be interchanged so they can be. I was speaking on the person talking about a cutler hammer in a square d and I have 100% confidence that those are not interchangeable.

 

[Deep Cover]

I quoted a broad statement you made and commented on that broad statement.

It's against code to put different manufacturers breakers in a panel..

The manufacturers don't decide who's breakers can be installed in their panels, they suggest what breakers the listing agency should test and the listing agency decides based on their testing.

 

[Skblay]

And you find out per manufactures specifications.. We are fighting the same argument here.. Perhaps my broad statement should have ended with unless manufacture specifications specify. But since we were talking about a specific brand (square d) which doesn't allow any other brands I diddnt see the need.

 

[bml215]

They have 2 different types of those breakers with those cut. The $8 ones have a shallow cut which are the ones meant to be used. They have $18 dollars with deep cuts. The deep cuts are used in panels with solid bus bars to make up for the lack of v cuts in the bus..

By using the $18 breakers and not following mfr specs you will be held liable for anything that happens.

 

[ablyss]

Inaccurate statement.

Simply calling something inaccurate does not make it so.

 

[Deep Cover]

A 240V circuit is not a MWBC.

 

[Skblay]

480 sparky is right that is an inaccurate statement.

 

[readydave8]

I have never seen another breaker that would "fit" the QO series.

Other manufacturers have sold breakers designed to fit QO panels, though. Just like Siemens breakers designed to fit CH.

 

[papaotis]

not that i would do that for a customer, but a homeline breaker that doesnt fit a homlene panel? take your needle nose and break a small slot bigger than the already small slot and it will fit! all that stops it from fitting is a little more plastic:whistling2:

 

[480sparky]

Simply calling something inaccurate does not make it so.

OK, prove your statement then.





















Or would you rather I prove mine?

OK. Call this a MWBC:

Ball's in your court.






.

 

[ablyss]

OK, prove your statement then.
Or would you rather I prove mine?

OK. Call this a MWBC:

Ball's in your court.

.

The definition is there and it simply says paraphrasing a circuit with more than one ungrounded conductor PLUS a neutral with equal voltage.

Now, I will admit I might have been a little willy nilly to just flat out say all 2-pole and 3-pole breakers are multiwire branch circuits. Motors don't require a neutral and in fact there is a whole different chapter in the NEC that deal with motor branch circuits. I might have left out that little detail.

My point was simply to illustrate that the characteristics of a multiwire branch circuit follow the principles as any other 2-pole and 3-pole circuit. They are suppose to utilize all phases.

As for your drawing...you have the double-pole switch/breaker drawn correctly.... you are feeding two ungrounded conductors...L1 goes top, L2 to the bottom. Now you show two neutrals... that kind of defeats the purpose of a multiwire branch circuit.

Ball in your court now

 

[papaotis]

good point ,ablys

 

[ablyss]

A 240V circuit is not a MWBC.

Mr. Deep Cover, the whole point of a multiwire branch circuit is to utilize all phases.

 

[480sparky]

.......As for your drawing...you have the double-pole switch/breaker drawn correctly.... you are feeding two ungrounded conductors...L1 goes top, L2 to the bottom. Now you show two neutrals... that kind of defeats the purpose of a multiwire branch circuit.

Ball in your court now

MWBC are not required by the NEC. They are merely allowed.

And the drawn installation is commonly used is many cases where sensitive electronics are being served. Many job specs disallow MWBCs in those instances.

Mr. Deep Cover, the whole point of a multiwire branch circuit is to utilize all phases.

So you've never hooked up a 240 air conditioner compressor, or electric water heater?

Those are not MWBCs.


Ball may be on my side of the net, but you hit it out of bounds.

 

[ablyss]

MWBC are not required by the NEC. They are merely allowed.

Wait what..? Who said anything about NEC requiring multiwire branch circuits?

And the drawn installation is commonly used is many cases where sensitive electronics are being served. Many job specs disallow MWBCs in those instances.

So you are drawing two dedicated circuits using a double pole breaker? Which has nothing to do with multiwire branch circuits, genius.:whistling2:

So you've never hooked up a 240 air conditioner compressor, or electric water heater?
Those are not MWBCs.

You are correct. Those are motor branch circuits.

Ball may be on my side of the net, but you hit it out of bounds.

You may have an outdated rule book. I'm clearly within bounds

 

[3xdad]

Ken, did you remove the connecting tabs?:thumbsup:

Oh, and Mark, ask the war wagon if you can post a pic of your panel, i'm curious to see it. Thanks

 

[Deep Cover]

Mr. Deep Cover, the whole point of a multiwire branch circuit is to utilize all phases.

You've never seen a 208V single phase water heater off a 120/208V 3 Phase panel? Or baseboard heat?

You stated...

2 pole and 3 pole breakers are only used for multiwire branch circuits See Article 210.4 for further reading.

That is completely false. What 480 is illustrating is 210.7.

210.7 Multiple Branch Circuits. Where two or more
branch circuits supply devices or equipment on the same
yoke, a means to simultaneously disconnect the ungrounded
conductors supplying those devices shall be provided
at the point at which the branch circuits originate.

 

[A Little Short]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky

So you've never hooked up a 240 air conditioner compressor, or electric water heater?
Those are not MWBCs.

:whistling2:


You are correct. Those are motor branch circuits.

A water heater is not a motor branch circuit.

You're statement that 2 & 3-pole breakers were only for MWBC is not correct and that is what everyone is on you about.
I'm sure (hope) you know you're statement as written is not correct.
But that is what you wrote and it needed correcting.