[owl]

I understand that arcs create a different waveform than the typical sine wave, but how does this device make a distinction between an arc in a damaged cord and other "acceptable" arcs?

 

[A Little Short]

I understand that arcs create a different waveform than the typical sine wave, but how does this device make a distinction between an arc in a damaged cord and other "acceptable" arcs?

They don't, that's why they have a bad name!:jester:

Seriously, when they are tested during the development process, they are tested on known arcs such as when a switch arcs when operating. The arc is put in a chip or something in the electronics and is called a "signature". They supposedly have several "signatures" of known "good" arcs that the AFCI is supposed to ignore. Each mfg may have different "signatures" which is why some brands may trip on a "good arc" and others will not.

But IMO, none of them have perfected the process and all have some false positives.

 

[Shock-Therapy]

Yeah, thats the just of it. Basically the symmetrical waveform of an intentional arcing device shows a pattern that the "smart" breaker should ignore. An unintentional arc in a perfect world should have an obviously random signature.

 

[Shock-Therapy]

I remember reading a good thread about this with some videos. Let me see if I can find it...........

 

[Shock-Therapy]

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=150263&page=1
​

 

[Shock-Therapy]

Heres another good read.....:thumbsup:

http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/afci-html/html/arc_fault_protection~20020124.htm

 

[ShaneDugas]

Some background in this paper on how the filtering is done.

http://www.naun.org/multimedia/NAUN/circuitssystemssignal/16-449.pdf

 

[chicken steve]

So the afci cabal found someone from Taiwan to write a paper, and Holt's forum closes yet another afci thread

I'm not impressed

Dr Joe Engle, an insider who worked in R&D back during the components inception , wrote a detailed paper for the IEEE 2012 convention....

Combination AFCIs, What they will do, and what they will not

btw, there's been little to no acknowledgment over this article by any tarde mag, org, or that lovely code of the day group

~CS~

 

[oliquir]

humm i would like to see an afci breaker connected after an inverter with square wave output :laughing:

 

[A Little Short]

So the afci cabal found someone from Taiwan to write a paper, and Holt's forum closes yet another afci thread



~CS~

To be fair to MH Forums, any thread gets closed if there is no activity in x number of days.

 

[chicken steve]

Admittedly true Lil L, i suppose i'm i'm a tad peeved @ MH for his past turnabout stance

But more fat for the conflaguration is readily available>

~CS~

 

[Stickshaker]

humm i would like to see an afci breaker connected after an inverter with square wave output :laughing:

I don't know what you said, but if you put root beer in a square cup it becomes beer.

 

[chicken steve]

Poor afci
we'll see them never more
for what they thought was true sine
was 1.74

~CS~

 

[RIVETER]

I understand that arcs create a different waveform than the typical sine wave, but how does this device make a distinction between an arc in a damaged cord and other "acceptable" arcs?

+There are no acceptable arcs.

 

[CraigV]

+There are no acceptable arcs.

What he prob meant is that some devices in normal operation will feedback a waveform that looks like that of an arc, but is uniquely different.

 

[dmxtothemax]

I understand that arcs create a different waveform than the typical sine wave, but how does this device make a distinction between an arc in a damaged cord and other "acceptable" arcs?

Is there such a thing as an acceptable arc ?

I would have thought that any arc has the potential to cause damage,

So they should be avoided.

Does an arc fault trip on any arc ?

Or just some ?

I have not come across an arc fault breaker here in Australia.

Not sure if we even use them here.

Maybe it's a USA thing.

 

[Stickshaker]

Every time you flip a switch an arc is created, right?

 

[chicken steve]

Is there such a thing as an acceptable arc ?

I would have thought that any arc has the potential to cause damage,

So they should be avoided.

good point:thumbsup:

The manufacturers of afci technology seem to think they can ignore both Paschens law , as well as the reality that a glowing connection occurs before the degrade into an arc .

so the pursuant questions would be....

>>> which is of the most & enduring incendiary caliber ? That this forum alone is lousy with pictorals of overheated electrical equipment should be evident (keeping in mind our lower V & higher magnitude)

>>>how are arcs sustainable below the parameters of Paschen's 347 volts on our 120V system viably monitored by any technology:whistling2:

Does an arc fault trip on any arc ?

Or just some ?

It's been questioned....
http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarc...I_-_Why_I_Have_a_Problem_With_It~20020801.htm

I have not come across an arc fault breaker here in Australia.

Not sure if we even use them here.

Maybe it's a USA thing.

Consider yourself lucky....

USA, and possibly France in the near future

~CS~

 

[CraigV]

Is there such a thing as an acceptable arc ?

In the wiring in the walls? No. From the brushes of a motor? Yes. As feedback from electronic devices? Yes. As the arc when switch contacts make or break? Yes.

 

[pete87]

humm i would like to see an afci breaker connected after an inverter with square wave output :laughing:

I would like to see the AFCI be banned by local amendments .

What is the Life Expectancy of AFCIs ?




Pete