[Dobermann315]

Hello,

I am following up on another thread where I said I am applying to two IBEW apprenticeship programs. One is up north and is not in a right to work state (stronger union) and the other is in Florida which is a right to work state (weaker union).

What are your experiences and opinions with being in a right-to-work state vs not being in one? Does one stay unemployed longer than the other? Does it make a difference in the long run?

Also, not trying to start a flame war here of union vs. non-union and not saying one is better...just trying to understand how it affects you as an electrician.

Thanks

 

[papaotis]

it probly wont be flame war on union -non union, it will be a teritorial thing, as it depends on which state, local, area , etc. some places are very strong union and right next door non union is ok.

 

[rlc3854]

Let's just start with you doing some research about wages and benefits in different States you think you might land after military service. Right to work States seem to be working more than non-right to work States at this time. Wages in the right to work States are very close to being the same and offer about the same benefits at a cost to you and maybe a matching 401k. The larger cities in the Union States do have higher wages, more benefits, pensions and annuities. Look at the IBEW Job Board site and look at the number of people on Book 1 and Book 2, also look at what their wages and benefits are also. The bigger cities do not list any of this information on that site. It is hard to place 3000 as out of work but then again the Local may have 10,000 members. Right to Work States also have some thing called "To work at will" which basically means the company can dump you for what ever reason they want without cause. So not starting any chit but, I sure wish people would research the site and other online information instead of asking here. So I should of kept my mouth shut.

 

[RIVETER]

Hello,

I am following up on another thread where I said I am applying to two IBEW apprenticeship programs. One is up north and is not in a right to work state (stronger union) and the other is in Florida which is a right to work state (weaker union).

What are your experiences and opinions with being in a right-to-work state vs not being in one? Does one stay unemployed longer than the other? Does it make a difference in the long run?

Also, not trying to start a flame war here of union vs. non-union and not saying one is better...just trying to understand how it affects you as an electrician.

Thanks

Those who are in favor of a "Right To Work" state rely upon trying to convince others that they are in favor because a person should not have to join a union if they don't want to. I agree with them. However, facts are facts: In Right To Work states the wages most often are lower and the benefits less.

 

[millerdrr]

It's Right to Work here, and the lowest percentage of unionized workers of all fifty states. Wages are very low. The highest offers I've seen in this state are Lorillard ($33/hr, unionized) and RJ Reynolds ($28, non-union but full benefits). Practically every job ad I've ever seen was below $20/hr, regardless of experience. My previous employer maintained a staff of around forty people and had subcontractors everywhere, as the work was nationwide and we often needed local licensees. His top manager and chief inspector (me) was salaried at $25,500 per year, no benefits. Cost of living isn't substantially lower. There are guys earning better wages, but I've met very few that cross over $20/hr, and only one that is over $25/hr (with POCO).

I don't particularly love Right to Work laws, but I don't think those laws are entirely to blame for lower wages. RTW is a small part of a broad political and social trend where the blue-collar workers are practically taught from birth that getting paid well is the sin of Greed. Tradesmen aren't really being cheated by RTW, considering they will straight-up tell you they are working for peanuts and "would be damn glad to make (insert pay raise equivalent to a second handful of peanuts)".

 

[RIVETER]

It's Right to Work here, and the lowest percentage of unionized workers of all fifty states. Wages are very low. The highest offers I've seen in this state are Lorillard ($33/hr, unionized) and RJ Reynolds ($28, non-union but full benefits). Practically every job ad I've ever seen was below $20/hr, regardless of experience. My previous employer maintained a staff of around forty people and had subcontractors everywhere, as the work was nationwide and we often needed local licensees. His top manager and chief inspector (me) was salaried at $25,500 per year, no benefits. Cost of living isn't substantially lower. There are guys earning better wages, but I've met very few that cross over $20/hr, and only one that is over $25/hr (with POCO).

I don't particularly love Right to Work laws, but I don't think those laws are entirely to blame for lower wages. RTW is a small part of a broad political and social trend where the blue-collar workers are practically taught from birth that getting paid well is the sin of Greed. Tradesmen aren't really being cheated by RTW, considering they will straight-up tell you they are working for peanuts and "would be damn glad to make (insert pay raise equivalent to a second handful of peanuts)".

In your post your pain is felt. Bottom line is that a well formed company that has a needed product WILL be in business and in order to supply the need they must have LABOR. If the LABOR FORCE finds the strength to stand up and just ask for just a "PIECE of the PIE" the company has a choice to make. Share the abundance or fire everyone and find someone else who is hungry enough to take advantage of.

 

[sbrn33]

You seem pretty intent on going union so you should probably go to the non RTW state.
If you have any and I mean any gumption to start your own company you should go to the RTW states.
The union absolutely hates small businesses .

 

[millerdrr]

The union absolutely hates small businesses .

Even as a union-supporter, I gotta agree. Before the ink was dry on my license, I sent the IBEW local an email about becoming a signatory contractor...they didn't even respond.

 

[eejack]

...just trying to understand how it affects you as an electrician.
Thanks

In general 'right to work' states have lower wages and lesser benefits. 'Right to work' is specifically a business sponsored weakening of collective negotiating.

If you are coming out of the military check out helmets to hardhats http://www.helmetstohardhats.org/

 

[Joest123]

Less wage and benefits but you will work more often!(that's what they say at least)....:no:

 

[Natan]

Bottom line is that a well formed company that has a needed product WILL be in business and in order to supply the need they must have LABOR. If the LABOR FORCE finds the strength to stand up and just ask for just a "PIECE of the PIE" the company has a choice to make. Share the abundance or fire everyone and find someone else who is hungry enough to take advantage of.

Sadly very true. This is called free labour market.

 

[Natan]

'Right to work' is specifically a business sponsored weakening of collective negotiating.

Exactly.

 

[Natan]

His top manager and chief inspector (me) was salaried at $25,500 per year, no benefits.

Man…this is peanuts… Have you ever thought about moving at all ???

In Chicago a JM gets $43/ hour + benefits, in San Diego about $37, just to make some examples.

 

[brian john]

Man…this is peanuts… Have you ever thought about moving at all ???

In Chicago a JM gets $43/ hour + benefits, in San Diego about $37, just to make some examples.

And the cost of living difference? Just curious.

F'ing cold ass wind
Dumb ass mayor
High murder rate


These things add up:laughing::laughing:

 

[robnj772]

Is the right to work crap even important at all? What's the overall wage difference compared to the cost of living in that state? Some of you guys act like the world evolves around the union, guess what it doesn't! I wouldn't just go move and work somewhere just cause of getting two dollars an hour more. Move to a place your going to be happy, there is more to life then union politics and work. If you are happy, none of that crap matters.

 

[Southeast Power]

Hello,

I am following up on another thread where I said I am applying to two IBEW apprenticeship programs. One is up north and is not in a right to work state (stronger union) and the other is in Florida which is a right to work state (weaker union).

What are your experiences and opinions with being in a right-to-work state vs not being in one? Does one stay unemployed longer than the other? Does it make a difference in the long run?

Also, not trying to start a flame war here of union vs. non-union and not saying one is better...just trying to understand how it affects you as an electrician.

Thanks

I live in a "right to work" state. How it ever got a name like that, I can't even guess. It's really the opposite.
It's basically a situation where people have lost a voice in how they make a living and have to take whatever is handed to them.
Not everyone can sell themselves and ask for a certain wage. Some can and do a great job of it.
If everyone had a basic set of minimum skills and could be employed to make an entity money or bring a certain amount of calculated efficiency, it would be nice but, within the base skills, some will excellent, some will not.
Union wages are somewhat like the military, private makes x amount, has x amount of responsibility. Sergeant has more training and expertise, gets paid more. The fitness of each one depends on the training of those above them.
Private contractors, working for the military, get what they can get, some with. Better negotiating skills will get more, same skills, not good at negotiating, will make less.
If I plan a mission and need a battalion size force, i know what the cost will be and can assemble a group of people with the skills I need. It's very important the maintain a force to pull from. People commit to this and train for this and people are rewarded for their efforts in doing so.

I have no idea where this is going...

 

[macmikeman]

Go ask a German Jew from 1930 for a good reason why "right to work" is very important to have.

No right to work is fine and dandy till some other majority than you takes over the system and then you find you are not allowed in the club.

 

[blueheels2]

Im in LU553 and the scale is somewhere around 22.45 or 55. I admit this is one of the few places in NC where you make this much. Berg and Griffin will pay you more than that but you really need to negotiate that wage before you start. Both companies start foreman pay at around 25 and it tops out in the 40's I believe. Scale wise foreman don't make that much but I get the impression if you are a good foreman the union shops around here will pay you above scale. For me personally the union is a better deal. I do believe that it being a right to work state coupled with no official apprenticeship training requirement depresses our wages. Wtih mandatory training you get rid of a lot of the chaff and companies are forced to pay more for their work force. im sick of typing.

 

[eejack]

Go ask a German Jew from 1930 for a good reason why "right to work" is very important to have.

No right to work is fine and dandy till some other majority than you takes over the system and then you find you are not allowed in the club.

Holy ****.

Are you saying that right to work will save us from nazis who want to put us in concentration camps and kill us?

Holy ****.

You are completely and totally out of your gourd.

And BJ...you thank that insane crap?

Holy ****.

 

[millerdrr]

Man…this is peanuts… Have you ever thought about moving at all ???

In Chicago a JM gets $43/ hour + benefits, in San Diego about $37, just to make some examples.

I quit about two years ago. I now work for a Housing Authority. Wage is better but still low, considering that they have no other licensee working for them, but I enjoy the people I'm working for. Benefits aren't bad; our health care cost dropped 10% for the same coverage this year. Retirement plan participation is mandatory. They pay maintenance men at least prevailing wage, even though Davis-Bacon isn't always applicable. They appear to be sincerely devoted to bettering the community.

Cost-of-living isn't substantially lower in the Piedmont Triad, compared to Chicago or other places up north...with the key exception of real estate. A subcontractor I worked with in New Hampshire said his home was valued around $600k if I remember right, but here he could get the same for $150k-ish.

$600k here will get you an all-brick, brand-new transitional, 4000 sq ft, five bed, four bath McMansion. All other expenses are very similar; prices were higher when I was on the road, but not as might be expected with the 400% difference in wage. Fast food might've been a dollar more; cigarettes were double...but in no way is $15/hr in the south comparable to $50/hr up north.