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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
havent done any residential in about 20 years so here's my question;
if I want to run a dedicated lighting cct (15A) which is to only feed LED pot lights, how many can I install? can I run as many as I want up to the 80% max of overload protection or am I still limited to 12 devices?
 

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Estwing magic
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You can size your breaker according to the load. Or, I guess, size your load according to the breaker.

Go crazy.

The only qualifier I might put on that is you should go with the max Watts rating of the can, not the trim.
 

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I agree with 99cent, always take the max rating of the can. Never know if someone rips out the LED bulbs and replaces with halogen.
 

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A buddy of mine got a non-conformance in a similar situation because you could put different bulbs in the cans. Even the ratings of the can won't help you're argument. We've all seen lamps rated for 60W with 100W bulbs in them. :(

If it's beyond the 12 devices per circuit the onus is on you to prove it's handyman resistant. Sad but true.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
well my plan was to use LED pot lights that can only take the mini pin type bulb, but I guess a halogen would probably fit as well!!
 

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Estwing magic
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If you're talking MR16's, I had a customer put in LED MR16's and they were happy with them. I would use 50W per can for your circuit loading.

Edit: I think they were GU10's my customer used; line voltage.
 

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silver50032000 said:
You can run as many as you want providing it is not over 12 amps.
No, you cannot.

Subrule 3 is based on KNOWN load, if you can remove the led and screw in something else, the load is no longer known. Just because you put in a 25 watt led doesn't mean the customer isn't going to cram a 50 watt in later.

If you put in a fixture that prevents overdrawing in the future, your inspector should have no issue allowing you to exceed 12 outlets.

8-304 Maximum number of outlets per circuit (see Appendix I)
(1) There shall be not more than 12 outlets on any 2-wire branch circuit, except as permitted by other Rules
of this Code.
(2) Such outlets shall be considered to be rated at not less than 1 A per outlet, except as permitted by
Subrule (3).
(3) Where the connected load is known, the number of outlets shall be permitted to exceed 12, provided that
the load current does not exceed 80% of the rating of the overcurrent device protecting the circuit.
 

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The only way to put more then 12 cans on a cctis if you get the LED version can. Basically identical as a normal can but does not have a screwbase it has a quick connect kind of similiar to a ballast disconnect that will clip into the LED inserts. This way it is not possible for someone to replace the LED With a different lamp.
 

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Electrical Simpleton
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The only way to put more then 12 cans on a cctis if you get the LED version can. Basically identical as a normal can but does not have a screwbase it has a quick connect kind of similiar to a ballast disconnect that will clip into the LED inserts. This way it is not possible for someone to replace the LED With a different lamp.
You said it's not possible... :laughing:

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I had only intended to run about 16 led pot lights, I just wasn't sure if the code had been updated or changed to accommodate new lighting that is available these days. was trying to avoid having to run a second cct. I guess I could run 20 amp cct and make up the difference!!
thanks for your help eveyone
 

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Dsparrow74 said:
I had only intended to run about 16 led pot lights, I just wasn't sure if the code had been updated or changed to accommodate new lighting that is available these days. was trying to avoid having to run a second cct. I guess I could run 20 amp cct and make up the difference!! thanks for your help eveyone
Except that 8-304 says 12 amp.

8-304 Maximum number of outlets per circuit (see Appendix I) (1) There shall be not more than 12 outlets on any 2-wire branch circuit, except as permitted by other Rules of this Code. (2) Such outlets shall be considered to be rated at not less than 1 A per outlet, except as permitted by Subrule (3).

And if there is any further doubt:

30-104 Protection (see Appendix B)

Luminaires, lampholders, and lighting track shall not be connected to a branch circuit protected by overcurrent devices rated or set at more than
(a) 15A in dwelling units;
 

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Pool Shark
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Since it's outside why not run 15A to transformer that steps it down to 12/24V and than use as many low volt lights as the transformer can hold.
 

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Light Bender
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If you use the maximum watt rating of the fixtures, and the circuit only has lights, you can load the circuit up to 12 amps as per 8-304(3)

It's done all the time, ask your inspector :thumbup:
 

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So if the max a pot light is rated for is a 50W par20, I could put 28 cans on one 15A circuit?

And if yes (should be), say I put 1 receptacle on that circuit as well.. does that now mean I can only put 11 cans?
 

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Estwing magic
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Tell me the last time an inspector traced out all your circuits and counted things up.

Be reasonable.
 

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FrunkSlammer said:
So if the max a pot light is rated for is a 50W par20, I could put 28 cans on one 15A circuit? And if yes (should be), say I put 1 receptacle on that circuit as well.. does that now mean I can only put 11 cans?
And the customer starts replacing the 50's with 75's because they want more light.
No one has ever exceeded the fixture's rating right? lets burn down a house because someone wanted to save $10 worth of 14/2.

You could put 24 lights on a circuit, but if nothing prevents the rated load from being exceeded, why would you want to?

As someone else mentioned, run low voltage or fixtures that only take a max size bulb.
 

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Estwing magic
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And the customer starts replacing the 50's with 75's because they want more light.
No one has ever exceeded the fixture's rating right? lets burn down a house because someone wanted to save $10 worth of 14/2.

You could put 24 lights on a circuit, but if nothing prevents the rated load from being exceeded, why would you want to?

As someone else mentioned, run low voltage or fixtures that only take a max size bulb.
Nothing is idiot proof. Lamp wattages are stated on the can. Personally, I am comfortable with using the highest rated wattage of the can.
 

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99cents said:
Nothing is idiot proof. Lamp wattages are stated on the can. Personally, I am comfortable with using the highest rated wattage of the can.
For sure, but when you make it easy to overload the circuit, you are asking for trouble. $12 for a chunk of 14/2 and a switch is pretty inexpensive compared to the potential aftermath. If there is the slightest chance the circuit will be overloaded, why not just do it the right way? I can see no reason not to. If you need to put 40 lights on a switch, why not just do low voltage? There are other options. I know there needs to be amendments for newer lighting options, but until they no longer make halogen and incandescent bulbs, better to play it safe.

I only seem so stubborn because I encountered the same thing in my dad's basement. He asked me to check out the lighting circuit and see why some of the lights flickered. There were 19 pot lights on the circuit with 60 watt rated cans. No big deal?
Well after I got to the middle, I started seeing some discoloration of the conductors. My the time I hit the end, there was melted insulation and some black scorching. Nothing like stuffing some 100's in those cans because it wasn't bright enough!

My dad isn't stupid, the 100's were from the previous owner. But if the fixture has a standard screw shell, you need to assume it could happen, at least I would.
 
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