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Historians and economists argue about the New Deal's actual role in recovery from the depression from 1933 to 1939, the extent to which it really sped the recovery. I know some of those New Deal projects, like for example the Hoover Dam - completed on time, under budget, an engineering masterpiece, paid for itself many times over - I sure wouldn't mind seeing more done like that. I just don't see it happening in today's world. The economy, the government, and the nation are so much different I would not draw any conclusions based on the effects of the New Deal. Deflation versus inflation the corporate influence on government, I just really don't think it will end well.

I think we really have to get our house in order with citizens united, anti-monopoly / anti-trust laws, basic regulation, before you can have confidence in the government running things like this successfully.
I agree, it's different now.

After the depression, there was actual leadership, both government and corporate. True leadership will unite people.

These days, there's no leadership at all, it's all greed. With no leadership, people will be divided; every man for himself.
 
He used union electricians on all his work. I spent a year and a half on 1 high rise.


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He only uses Union Labor when he has to. Anyplace he can get away without it, he will and has. It’s only a matter of time before he stops using Union Labor in NYC. Especially if that’s the trend with the other developers.

Our hall had a poll they asked us all to fill out online. It was 60/40 for Trump. I guess they wanted to see if if they were backing the candidate that was representing the majority of the local.
I updated my voter registration this year so I would get a ballot. I haven’t voted since Ross Perot. I did it because I was going to vote for Trump. At this point I just can’t do it. The more I see him on TV, the more I think he’s a big buffoon. And I can’t bring myself to vote for Biden. So I’m done beating my self up over it. I’m good with whatever everybody decides. I mean these are the best candidates from both parties. How bad could it get! :LOL:
 
Biden would sign the PRO act if president. Almost every republican but 2 in the house voted against it. It needs to get through the senate next.


Stronger and swifter remedies when employers interfere with workers’ rights.
More freedom to organize without employer interference.
Winning first contract agreements when workers organize and protecting fair share agreements. (prevents bad faith negotiation or delaying first contract)
Protecting strikes and other protest activity. (legalizes secondary "sympathy" striking)
Organizing and bargaining rights for more workers.
(tightens the definitions of independent contractor and supervisor to crack down on misclassification and extend NLRA protections to more workers. )
 
I updated my voter registration this year so I would get a ballot. I haven’t voted since Ross Perot. I did it because I was going to vote for Trump. At this point I just can’t do it. The more I see him on TV, the more I think he’s a big buffoon. And I can’t bring myself to vote for Biden. So I’m done beating my self up over it. I’m good with whatever everybody decides. I mean these are the best candidates from both parties. How bad could it get! :LOL:
I know exactly what you're talking about, in a lot of situations, if it degenerates to this point, the smart thing to do is don't get involved. The difference here is, you're involved, like it or not. You withdraw, you got beat. Other years I have not bothered to vote because I really didn't figure there was any significant difference between the two candidates. I think that really changed with Obama. I think there's a huge difference what happens on some of our most important issues depending on whether Biden or Trump wins.

Politics have been more advertising than outcomes for a long time in the US, going back to Nixon, much much more so today with the monstrous campaign funds and the juggernaut media / social media. If you vote based on who's handsome or who's a good speaker or which guy's style you like, you got beat out of your vote by the advertisers / media / social media. If you don't vote because you don't like what's on TV, you got beat too. I'm going to vote based on their actions, my interests, and my values, not my tastes.
 
There was a comic strip called Peanuts when I was a kid, really popular. There was a running gag where every fall Charlie Brown would ask Lucy to hold his football to practice place kicking and Lucy would pull it out at the last second and Charlie Brown would land on his ass. He would at first refuse, Lucy would bullshit him, and year after year he'd fall for it.

(To the kids - I know what you're thinking, but remember there were only like four channels on TV back then, this was entertainment.)

Anyway, Charlie Brown is labor, and the Democratic party is Lucy. They keep promising, and labor keeps falling for it. Biden's from Delaware, the corporate whore state. The blue collar roots and love of the working man is a fiction he uses in his campaigns. He's been a senator since he's 30. He didn't work at anything long enough to complete an apprenticeship for ****s sake. He worked for five years or so as a lawyer then bullshit his way into the US Senate and the rest is history.

 
There was a comic strip called Peanuts when I was a kid, really popular. There was a running gag where every fall Charlie Brown would ask Lucy to hold his football to practice place kicking and Lucy would pull it out at the last second and Charlie Brown would land on his ass. He would at first refuse, Lucy would bullshit him, and year after year he'd fall for it.

(To the kids - I know what you're thinking, but remember there were only like four channels on TV back then, this was entertainment.)

Anyway, Charlie Brown is labor, and the Democratic party is Lucy. They keep promising, and labor keeps falling for it. Biden's from Delaware, the corporate whore state. The blue collar roots and love of the working man is a fiction he uses in his campaigns. He's been a senator since he's 30. He didn't work at anything long enough to complete an apprenticeship for ****s sake. He worked for five years or so as a lawyer then bullshit his way into the US Senate and the rest is history.

It's not just about Biden, it's his appointees and gaining control of the senate.

We know what Trump will do to labor which is install anti worker cabinet members into the department of labor and fill the courts with anti union judges. I don't have to speculate that he might do it, he has done it. He'd pass a national right to work bill if he got a Republican house and senate. OSHA investigations are at an all time low and they're ignoring COVID complaints as a workplace issue.

Hell, I filed a charge against a former employer for wrongful termination and they used a precedent that was similar to my case that ruled in favor of the plaintiff as a reason to rule against me. This is the bizarro DOL under Republican rule.

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It's not just about Biden, it's his appointees and gaining control of the senate.

We know what Trump will do to labor which is install anti worker cabinet members into the department of labor and fill the courts with anti union judges. I don't have to speculate that he might do it, he has done it. He'd pass a national right to work bill if he got a Republican house and senate. OSHA investigations are at an all time low and they're ignoring COVID complaints as a workplace issue.

Hell, I filed a charge against a former employer for wrongful termination and they used a precedent that was similar to my case that ruled in favor of the plaintiff as a reason to rule against me. This is the bizarro DOL under Republican rule.
Valid points, but I still think Trump is the better option for labor. Bottom line, I think labor had more power under Trump with a booming economy and low unemployment than they did with Obama in office.

Biden is going to move so much work to China there won't be much work left here for labor to benefit from. What's left will be Amazon. It will be horrible whether or not they organize.
 
Valid points, but I still think Trump is the better option for labor. Bottom line, I think labor had more power under Trump with a booming economy and low unemployment than they did with Obama in office.

Biden is going to move so much work to China there won't be much work left here for labor to benefit from. What's left will be Amazon. It will be horrible whether or not they organize.
I disagree. By conventional economic theory record low unemployment for that long should have dramatically increased wages for workers. It didn't. Maybe not enough individuals pressured for more money? I don't know, but unions are arguably the weakest they've ever been and the federal minimum wage hasn't budged in over a decade.

Now there's whispers from the Republican side about supporting sectoral unions and there are at least a couple giving lip service to increasing union membership, but it's not mainstream yet and I'm not holding my breath.

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I disagree. By conventional economic theory record low unemployment for that long should have dramatically increased wages for workers. It didn't. Maybe not enough individuals pressured for more money? I don't know, but unions are arguably the weakest they've ever been and the federal minimum wage hasn't budged in over a decade.

Now there's whispers from the Republican side about supporting sectoral unions and there are at least a couple giving lip service to increasing union membership, but it's not mainstream yet and I'm not holding my breath.
I don't know why wages didn't rise more. I think at least part of the problem has to be offshoring. Labor / wages like everything else are subject to supply and demand. Low unemployment means short supply of labor in the US. Without barriers to offshoring (tariffs, etc.) the high demand and low supply drives growth in China.

Also keep in mind that although unemployment was of course low 2018 and 2019, the numbers are not quite as good as they look for historic comparison purposes. Central to Obama / Biden's "recovery" was moving the goalposts, changing the definition of unemployment, and lowering those numbers without anybody getting a job. I don't think Trump restored the old criteria for the statistics.
 
I don't know why wages didn't rise more. I think at least part of the problem has to be offshoring. Labor / wages like everything else are subject to supply and demand. Low unemployment means short supply of labor in the US. Without barriers to offshoring (tariffs, etc.) the high demand and low supply drives growth in China.

Also keep in mind that although unemployment was of course low 2018 and 2019, the numbers are not quite as good as they look for historic comparison purposes. Central to Obama / Biden's "recovery" was moving the goalposts, changing the definition of unemployment, and lowering those numbers without anybody getting a job. I don't think Trump restored the old criteria for the statistics.
I think wages would have started to trend upward had the economy not been shut down for COVID.
Most employers were initially stuck in the mindset that help was still plentiful and there it is if you want it and if you don’t we’ll hire the guy waiting behind you. Many saw it as an opportunity to stash some cash back from the lean years preceding. Just as the wage jump was getting ready to happen (in my opinion) here comes COVID.
Again in my opinion a robust economy is the best force to increase wages.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
I’ve noticed more large jobs in our territory, NYC to Fairfield, CT, are being done by out of state contractors with a few of their electricians and the rest of the workers are “labor source” unskilled workers. Perhaps this is the wave of the future. But just like illegal immigration it will drive down wages and price out professional companies employing electricians.


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He said he'd sign a national right to work bill should it ever get to his desk.

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I live in a Right to work state and our scale is way above the 31.00 you claim NY will experience.

I believe the right to work scare is just that a scare tactic used to get voters out. A strong union with quality workers should prevail.
 
I don't think Trump restored the old criteria for the statistics.
And have the numbers look bad under his watch? No way, and I wouldn't either.

And I despise trump with every fiber of my existence.
 
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