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Hello,

Moved main panel (and upgraded to 200 amp) to detached garage, near cold water hose bib. Placed 2 ground rods at location. When inspector (California) came to sign off on underground (ran 125 amp back to house new sub panel) he mentioned that the CWB needed to be run from one of the ground rods to the hose bib (3 feet from rod). I clearly discussed this for a few minutes with him, telling him that I would be replacing the 10 inch piece of the water pipe going into the wall as well as the leaking hose bib. He was very clear that this pipe was to be bonded.

I wish I had recorded our conversation. Now, when he comes out for a final inspection on the panel, he tells me "No, I did not tell you to bond to this water pipe. You have to run the wire all the way to the front of the house, to the main water line". Even the old service panel which is at the back of the house is not bonded to the front yard water line. It is bonded to the hose bib at the back of the house.

Help!
 

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RIP 1959-2015
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Hello,

Moved main panel (and upgraded to 200 amp) to detached garage, near cold water hose bib. Placed 2 ground rods at location. When inspector (California) came to sign off on underground (ran 125 amp back to house new sub panel) he mentioned that the CWB needed to be run from one of the ground rods to the hose bib (3 feet from rod). I clearly discussed this for a few minutes with him, telling him that I would be replacing the 10 inch piece of the water pipe going into the wall as well as the leaking hose bib. He was very clear that this pipe was to be bonded.

I wish I had recorded our conversation. Now, when he comes out for a final inspection on the panel, he tells me "No, I did not tell you to bond to this water pipe. You have to run the wire all the way to the front of the house, to the main water line". Even the old service panel which is at the back of the house is not bonded to the front yard water line. It is bonded to the hose bib at the back of the house.

Help!
Welcome.

Buy your inspector a code Book.

It is not up to you to ground the main service properly unless you're the one who installed it.
 

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Jesus Scott
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I'm not sure what you're saying but if your water pipe is your grounding electrode your gec has to go to where it enters the building and run to wherever the service disconnect is. To the separate building you need a 4 wire feed and ground system. Neutrals and grounds separated at remote panel.
 

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You need to bond the water service (if copper) within 5' of its entry into the building.
I don't have my NEC infront of me to cite sorry.
Also you need 4 conductors from the now main panel to your sub. Either in conduit or as a complete cable assembly. It's not kosher to zip tie a bare ground to the existing 3 wire feed.
 

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If he was in MA I would agree but he is not.

Many areas do require grounding system up grades when main panels are changed.
All our service upgrades require the grounding to be upgraded as well. Interesting MA doesn't require that.

On another note, at the last code class I was at, we had a discussion on bonding the gas mains. I understand it has been a requirement for some guys for quite a while now, but ive never had any inspectors say anything in my area. Im going to start doing it though to make sure I dont run into any failed inspections.

I remember a large commercial job I was on a few years back where the prints spect a gas bond, but we had to disconnect it because the inspector wouldn't allow it. :jester: I dont think everyone is on the same page out here. :laughing:
 

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Salty Member
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All our service upgrades require the grounding to be upgraded as well. Interesting MA doesn't require that.
MA has a rule that basically says if there is an existing electrical code violation of any type we not have to fix it but we can't make it worse.

If there is a true hazard the electrical inspector is supposed to notify the property owner.

Of course not all inspectors follow those rules. :rolleyes:
 

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Senior Moment
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Hello,

Moved main panel (and upgraded to 200 amp) to detached garage, near cold water hose bib. Placed 2 ground rods at location. When inspector (California) came to sign off on underground (ran 125 amp back to house new sub panel) he mentioned that the CWB needed to be run from one of the ground rods to the hose bib (3 feet from rod). I clearly discussed this for a few minutes with him, telling him that I would be replacing the 10 inch piece of the water pipe going into the wall as well as the leaking hose bib. He was very clear that this pipe was to be bonded.

I wish I had recorded our conversation. Now, when he comes out for a final inspection on the panel, he tells me "No, I did not tell you to bond to this water pipe. You have to run the wire all the way to the front of the house, to the main water line". Even the old service panel which is at the back of the house is not bonded to the front yard water line. It is bonded to the hose bib at the back of the house.

Help!

Where are you located in California? I' going to say south of Orange County.
 

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All our service upgrades require the grounding to be upgraded as well. Interesting MA doesn't require that.

On another note, at the last code class I was at, we had a discussion on bonding the gas mains. I understand it has been a requirement for some guys for quite a while now, but ive never had any inspectors say anything in my area. Im going to start doing it though to make sure I dont run into any failed inspections.

I remember a large commercial job I was on a few years back where the prints spect a gas bond, but we had to disconnect it because the inspector wouldn't allow it. :jester: I dont think everyone is on the same page out here. :laughing:
I know that now with the use of CSST becoming more popular for gas lines the code surrounding it does require the black iron portion of the piping system to be bonded. I do know that some companies like gastite have made a self bonding version of CSST but in my experience inspectors still want to see the gas pipe bonded if CSST is going to be or is installed.
 

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MA has a rule that basically says if there is an existing electrical code violation of any type we not have to fix it but we can't make it worse.

If there is a true hazard the electrical inspector is supposed to notify the property owner.

Of course not all inspectors follow those rules. :rolleyes:
IMO, if it is a true electrical hazard, the NEC should require it to be fixed in X amount of time or risk power disconnection or main breaker lockout.
 

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corn-fused
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would a ground rod next to house on a service that comes from the detacched garage eliminate the need to run ground back to the service? new panel in house
 

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IMO, if it is a true electrical hazard, the NEC should require it to be fixed in X amount of time or risk power disconnection or main breaker lockout.
And how exactly would the NEC, a private entity, require homeowners to spend money to fix something?
 

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jeffmikl said:
Hello, Moved main panel (and upgraded to 200 amp) to detached garage, near cold water hose bib. Placed 2 ground rods at location. When inspector (California) came to sign off on underground (ran 125 amp back to house new sub panel) he mentioned that the CWB needed to be run from one of the ground rods to the hose bib (3 feet from rod). I clearly discussed this for a few minutes with him, telling him that I would be replacing the 10 inch piece of the water pipe going into the wall as well as the leaking hose bib. He was very clear that this pipe was to be bonded. I wish I had recorded our conversation. Now, when he comes out for a final inspection on the panel, he tells me "No, I did not tell you to bond to this water pipe. You have to run the wire all the way to the front of the house, to the main water line". Even the old service panel which is at the back of the house is not bonded to the front yard water line. It is bonded to the hose bib at the back of the house. Help!
The inspector sounds right. It's probably the only code he knows though. Which city is he?
 

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You need to bond the water service (if copper) within 5' of its entry into the building.
I don't have my NEC infront of me to cite sorry.
Also you need 4 conductors from the now main panel to your sub. Either in conduit or as a complete cable assembly. It's not kosher to zip tie a bare ground to the existing 3 wire feed.
250.52 Grounding Electrodes
(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground
water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m
(10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing bonded to
the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically
continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating
pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode
conductor and the bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s), if installed.

Is this what you were dialing in on?
 

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250.52 Grounding Electrodes
(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground
water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m
(10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing bonded to
the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically
continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating
pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode
conductor and the bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s), if installed.

Is this what you were dialing in on?
250.68 too....

(C) Metallic Water Pipe and Structural Metal. Grounding
electrode conductors and bonding jumpers shall be permitted
to be connected at the following locations and used to
extend the connection to an electrode(s):
(1) Interior metal water piping located not more than 1.52 m
(5 ft) from the point of entrance to the building shall be
permitted to be used as a conductor to interconnect
electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.
Exception: In industrial, commercial, and institutional
buildings or structures, if conditions of maintenance and supervision
ensure that only qualified persons service the installation,
interior metal water piping located more than
1.52 m (5 ft) from the point of entrance to the building shall
be permitted as a bonding conductor to interconnect electrodes
that are part of the grounding electrode system, or as
a grounding electrode conductor, if the entire length, other
than short sections passing perpendicularly through walls,
floors, or ceilings, of the interior metal water pipe that is
being used for the conductor is exposed.
 

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Hello,

Moved main panel (and upgraded to 200 amp) to detached garage, near cold water hose bib. Placed 2 ground rods at location. When inspector (California) came to sign off on underground (ran 125 amp back to house new sub panel) he mentioned that the CWB needed to be run from one of the ground rods to the hose bib (3 feet from rod). I clearly discussed this for a few minutes with him, telling him that I would be replacing the 10 inch piece of the water pipe going into the wall as well as the leaking hose bib. He was very clear that this pipe was to be bonded.

I wish I had recorded our conversation. Now, when he comes out for a final inspection on the panel, he tells me "No, I did not tell you to bond to this water pipe. You have to run the wire all the way to the front of the house, to the main water line". Even the old service panel which is at the back of the house is not bonded to the front yard water line. It is bonded to the hose bib at the back of the house.

Help!
Forget BONDING to water pipe. The PIPE, if usable according to the code, is involved with GROUNDING.
 
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