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Is a neutral considered a Current Carrying Conductor? (here we go again)

14K views 57 replies 19 participants last post by  joe-nwt 
#1 · (Edited)
Due Dilligence: OK, I've checked Article 100, Googled it and checked here on Electrician Talk as well, and it's still not absolutely clear to me (and apparently others) whether the neutral is considered Current Carrying. Some key points I've found are:
  • It does carry current, but is not current carrying conductor (or something like that),
  • and, Yes it is a Current Carrying Conductor, but doesn't always carry current,
  • there are many references to NEC 310.15(B)(4)...which doesn't exist anymore...Whatever.
I'm neck deep in studying Table 310.16 (through Jade Learning, which is excellent), and the values for allowable ampacity need to be modified for conditions such as ambient temperature, number of conductors in a raceway or cable, or other conditions of use. And, as many others say..."it's clear as mud" whether NEC considers the neutral to be a Current Carrying Conductor.

What say you all?

Edit: I just found it in the 2020 NEC Handbook. Section 310.15(E) reminds us that neutral conductors in some cases, is NOT considered current carrying. From where I'm standing, it looks like in all cases but one, is the neutral considered current carrying.

310.15(E) Neutral Conductor. Neutral conductors shall be considered current carrying in accordance with any of the following:
  1. A neutral conductor that carries only the unbalanced current from other conductors of the same circuit shall not be required to be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1).
  2. In a 3-wire circuit consisting of tho phase conductors and the neutral conductor of a 4-wire, 3-phase, wye-connected system, a common conductor carries approximately the same current as the line-to-neutral load currents of the other conductors and shall be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1).
  3. On a 4-wire, 3-phase wye circuit where the major portion of load consists of nonlinear loads, harmonic currents are present in the neutral conductor; the neutral conductor shall therefore be considered a current-carrying conductor.
Additional Commentary text: Nonlinear loads on 3-phase circuits can cause an increase in neutral conductor current.
 
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#3 ·
So, just to be crystal clear, when dealing with Table 310.16 to determine conductors & ampacities, that the neutral is counted as a current carrying conductor. That it's one of the three, or when counted it adds up to more than three. Period. End of story. Pack up sh!t and go home. Correct?
 
#4 ·
Almost everything has electronics in it so the neutral is considered current carrying. Years ago it was considered only to carry the unbalanced load of a 240/120 volt single phase system that was feeding resistive loads only. Over the past 30 years or so RLC circuits came into play so now we have all sorts of mystical stuff to deal with. We have no control of what is plugged into the receptacle or what light fixtures the customers use.
 
#9 ·
I can't speak for NEC, but my whole apprenticeship (school, work, and code) a neutral was not counted as current-carrrying in a conduit when a full set of hot/phase conductors accompanied it. The CEC is largely based on the intent of the NEC.

Engineering specs may supercede that. Some jobs (office, data center, etc) spec'd for one size larger neutral, or 200% neutral. Others want dedicated neutrals for everything (until they realize the cost!)
 
#12 ·
I can't speak for NEC, but my whole apprenticeship (school, work, and code) a neutral was not counted as current-carrrying in a conduit when a full set of hot/phase conductors accompanied it. The CEC is largely based on the intent of the NEC.
I think both NEC and CEC align on this.

A "Neutral" is not counted as a CCC, but the "identified" conductor is (The grounded conductor in the NEC)
 
#10 ·
the thing tripping you up is whether to COUNT it in one or more situations requiring a calculation
counting it or not in a calculation has nothing to do with its function and reason to be in the circuit

the reason to count it or not has to do with the calculation

as stated: it is always a current carrying conductor in every case
otherwise it would not need to be included in the circuit

southwire has already begun to sell 12-2G romex with a #10AWG neutral
they also already sell 12-2G romex with the purple and gray dimmer wires included in the overall jacket

i like the thing with Ed having white hair :)

a groundED conductor (neutral, white) is intended to carry current in normal circumstances
a groundING conductor (bare or green) is intended to Only carry current in Abnormal circumstances

if you truly want to get a grip on the NEC you need to get comfortable with those terms because that is what they use every time

my journeyman used to say "boy that ground will F you up" but he was actually talking about a neutral, in particular a lost neutral in a circuit
i suspect the reason the old timers call it "ground" is the result of old romex only having a black and white and ground is less syllables than neutral
 
#15 ·
the thing tripping you up is whether to COUNT it in one or more situations requiring a calculation
counting it or not in a calculation has nothing to do with its function and reason to be in the circuit

the reason to count it or not has to do with the calculation

as stated: it is always a current carrying conductor in every case
otherwise it would not need to be included in the circuit

southwire has already begun to sell 12-2G romex with a #10AWG neutral
they also already sell 12-2G romex with the purple and gray dimmer wires included in the overall jacket

i like the thing with Ed having white hair :)

a groundED conductor (neutral, white) is intended to carry current in normal circumstances
a groundING conductor (bare or green) is intended to Only carry current in Abnormal circumstances

if you truly want to get a grip on the NEC you need to get comfortable with those terms because that is what they use every time

my journeyman used to say "boy that ground will F you up" but he was actually talking about a neutral, in particular a lost neutral in a circuit
i suspect the reason the old timers call it "ground" is the result of old romex only having a black and white and ground is less syllables than neutral
I'm speaking specifically about counting towards the calculation using 310.15(C)(1). We derate based on number of Current Carrying Conductors. I am not talking about the "function and reason to be in the circuit," as you mentioned.

You emphasized that the neutral is a Current Carrying Conductor "always" and "in every case," yet, as I mentioned in my post, Section 310.15(E)(1) clearly states that a neutral conductor shall not be required to be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1). It looks like there's at least one scenario where the neutral isn't required to be counted as a CCC.
 
#11 · (Edited)
in the 2017 NEC ... 310.15 (B) (4) talks about a conductor that is covered or bare and that its ampacity should be equal to the lowest ampacity rating of the insulated conductors
in this case covered does not mean insulated
for instance the outer covering of romex is not considered insulation for the purposes of the nec, whether it provides some insulation or not is irrelevant

in the 2020 NEC it is 310.15 (D)

the purpose of this whole portion of the article, is so that you can not put a bare 20AWG in the conduit for a EGC unless the insulation of all of the conductors is rated for the temp this would cause during a fault

in other words the Ampacity of all of your wires to has meet the lowest insulation temp that you are using

in other words use all the same insulation and all 12 AWG in a 20amp circuit, no downsizing of the ground or any other wire
im not sure you can mix insulations but it is a bad idea and not good practice either way
__ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
since you are working on ampacity of conductors
the whole point of the article is to make sure you dont cause a temperature rise in the conduit that would exceed the insulation rating
this temperature rise would not be from induction
but plain amps which also cause heating.
the conductors need room to breath and give off the heat
otherwise it could build up to a dangerous level and damage the insulation of the conductors
you know what that means,,,, a big flash/bang and then a fire
 
#14 ·
In many cases the neutral isn't a current carrying conductor. Here is a good list for you

Here's some examples of when to count and not count the neutral as a current carrying conductor or CCC:
A) 2 wire circuit w/ 1 ungrounded, 1 neutral = 2 CCC's
B) 3 wire circuit w/ 2 ungrounded, 1 neutral = 3 CCC's
C) 4 wire circuit w/ 3 ungrounded, 1 neutral = 3 CCC's*
Notes:
A) A normal 2 wire circuit has equal current flowing in each of the circuit conductors so they both count as CCC's.
B) In this circuit the neutral current will be nearly equal to the current in the ungrounded conductors so the neutral counts as a CCC
C) In this circuit the neutral will only carry the imbalance of the current between the three ungrounded conductors so it is not counted as a CCC, with an exception,
*if the current is more than 50% nonlinear (see below for NEC article 100 definition) then the neutral would count as a CCC.

1Ø- 120/240 volt system-different circuit types:
D) 2 wire circuit w/ 1 ungrounded, 1 neutral = 2 CCC's
E) 3 wire circuit w/ 2 ungrounded, 1 neutral = 2 CCC's
Notes:
D) A normal 2 wire circuit has equal current flowing in each of the circuit conductors so they both count as CCC's.
E) In this circuit the neutral will only carry the imbalance between the two ungrounded conductors so the neutral is not counted as a CCC.
Nonlinear Load. A load where the wave shape of the steady-state current does not follow the wave shape of the applied voltage.
Informational Note: Electronic equipment, electronic/electric-discharge lighting, adjustable-speed drive systems, and similar equipment may be nonlinear loads.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Mind me asking where you got this list from and what NEC it's based on?

Edit: NM, I found you posted the same in 2013. And, it just so happens to correspond to my 2020 Handbook 310.15(E)(1)-(3).
They seem to match up with what NEC states. However, both NEC 2020 and your note both support only one situation where the neutral isn't counted as a current carrying conductor.
 
#23 ·
I think the two Canadian’s and Dennis are right on. In you typical feeder or service entrance, whether it’s single phase 3-wire or three phase 4-wire, the neutral is not a current carrying conductor for derating. Yes it Carrie’s current, the unbalanced load. But for heat and derating, it’s only going to give off the heat that’s missing in the un-grounded conductors. So the conduit will never see more heat than what the (3) three phase conductors would give off.

The same would go for multiwire branch circuits utilizing all the phase conductors along with the neutral/grounded/identified conductor.

Your typical two wire circuit or two phases and a neutral of a three phase system, the neutral would count as a current carrying conductor. It will give off heat just like the phase conductors in this situation.

I don’t ever figure in harmonics. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be.
 
#34 ·
I don’t ever figure in harmonics. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be.
Ain't it the truth ?!?!?!?

I file that with the "super neutrals..." and "isolated grounds..."

Snake oil & great salesmanship.
Technically the only way that a grounded conductor is a neutral is if the load is balanced and thus it is not considered a current carrying conductor. A grounded conductor is a neutral if it has 0 current.

On a single phase system the Neutral = A-B
If A is 15 amp and B is 15 amps then the grounded conductor is 0 amps and therefore a neutral. We use the term loosely and that is where the misunderstanding comes from.

If you have a single phase system and you share a neutral with A and B then the grounded conductor is not a current carrying conductor even though it may carry current.

Let suppose A and B are 20 amp circuits and for the sake of explaining this the maximum amps that will be seen with both A and B is 40 amps. If A = 15 amps and B = 20 amps then the grounded conductor will see 5 amps (20-15)... If you add those 3 up 15 + 20 + 5 = 40 amps.. With any combination you will never see more than 20 amps which can be counted on the A and B thus the grounded conductor is not counted because it doesn't add any more amps than A and B will carry.

I am sure an engineer would give me hell for that explanation but it always helped when I explained it to others.
"Sounds good to me!!!" :p:sneaky: -Eric Cartmann from "South Park."
 
#25 ·
Due Dilligence: OK, I've checked Article 100, Googled it and checked here on Electrician Talk as well, and it's still not absolutely clear to me (and apparently others) whether the neutral is considered Current Carrying. Some key points I've found are:
  • It does carry current, but is not current carrying conductor (or something like that),
  • and, Yes it is a Current Carrying Conductor, but doesn't always carry current,
  • there are many references to NEC 310.15(B)(4)...which doesn't exist anymore...Whatever.
I'm neck deep in studying Table 310.16 (through Jade Learning, which is excellent), and the values for allowable ampacity need to be modified for conditions such as ambient temperature, number of conductors in a raceway or cable, or other conditions of use. And, as many others say..."it's clear as mud" whether NEC considers the neutral to be a Current Carrying Conductor.

What say you all?

Edit: I just found it in the 2020 NEC Handbook. Section 310.15(E) reminds us that neutral conductors in some cases, is NOT considered current carrying. From where I'm standing, it looks like in all cases but one, is the neutral considered current carrying.

310.15(E) Neutral Conductor. Neutral conductors shall be considered current carrying in accordance with any of the following:
  1. A neutral conductor that carries only the unbalanced current from other conductors of the same circuit shall not be required to be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1).
  2. In a 3-wire circuit consisting of tho phase conductors and the neutral conductor of a 4-wire, 3-phase, wye-connected system, a common conductor carries approximately the same current as the line-to-neutral load currents of the other conductors and shall be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1).
  3. On a 4-wire, 3-phase wye circuit where the major portion of load consists of nonlinear loads, harmonic currents are present in the neutral conductor; the neutral conductor shall therefore be considered a current-carrying conductor.
Additional Commentary text: Nonlinear loads on 3-phase circuits can cause an increase in neutral conductor current.
Here is a very simple test you can do to find out.
Use Telephone wire as neutral on a 10 Amp load stand back and watch it melt
 
#26 ·
Don't let semantics get the better of you or you'll be running in circles chasing your tail.

"Current Carrying Conductor" is an odd term. "Conduct" means carry current. If a conductor doesn't carry current, why would it even be there?

Not counting the equipment grounding conductor / green wire in ampacity calculations is easy to understand - the equipment grounding conductor only carries current in fault conditions.

In multiwire circuits, there is a cancellation effect so the neutral may carry less current than the hots. If all the hots are fully loaded and perfectly balanced, the neutral carries zero. However also note that under other circumstances the neutral carries more than some of the hots. For example in a four wire multiwire branch circuit on a wye system you could have

load on A = 20A
load on B = 20A
load on C = 0A
load on N = 20A

The neutral is carrying current (full load in fact) and is carrying more than C hot.

Or you could have

load on A = 20A
load on B = 5A
load on C = 5A
load on N = 15A

The neutral is carrying current, and is carrying more than B or C hots.

(BTW, these examples are everyday occurrences. If you have a bank of cubicles in an office fed with a four wire 208/120 multiwire branch circuit, the receptacles in the cube base will be on one of the three phases. If one person plugs in a space heater to an A receptacle, and another plugs a space heater in a B receptacle, you'll have that loading above.)

You can play the values for A, B, and C on this graph

20A three phase MWBC neutral current (desmos.com)

and notice that no matter what you do, the biggest perimeter you could draw is the perimeter of an equilateral triangle with the side equal to the full capacity of the circuit. The perimeter of the triangle is the combined load on the four wires. So the maximum TOTAL load on the four wires is THREE times the full load of the circuit. So it makes sense to count these four wires as THREE for derating purposes, which are based on the combined load on the wires.

So they tell you that you don't have to count the neutral in your derating calculation, but it's not because the neutral doesn't carry current, it just works for making the calculations.
 
#43 ·
Don't let semantics get the better of you or you'll be running in circles chasing your tail.

"Current Carrying Conductor" is an odd term. "Conduct" means carry current. If a conductor doesn't carry current, why would it even be there?

Not counting the equipment grounding conductor / green wire in ampacity calculations is easy to understand - the equipment grounding conductor only carries current in fault conditions.

In multiwire circuits, there is a cancellation effect so the neutral may carry less current than the hots. If all the hots are fully loaded and perfectly balanced, the neutral carries zero. However also note that under other circumstances the neutral carries more than some of the hots. For example in a four wire multiwire branch circuit on a wye system you could have

load on A = 20A
load on B = 20A
load on C = 0A
load on N = 20A

The neutral is carrying current (full load in fact) and is carrying more than C hot.

Or you could have

load on A = 20A
load on B = 5A
load on C = 5A
load on N = 15A

The neutral is carrying current, and is carrying more than B or C hots.

(BTW, these examples are everyday occurrences. If you have a bank of cubicles in an office fed with a four wire 208/120 multiwire branch circuit, the receptacles in the cube base will be on one of the three phases. If one person plugs in a space heater to an A receptacle, and another plugs a space heater in a B receptacle, you'll have that loading above.)

You can play the values for A, B, and C on this graph

20A three phase MWBC neutral current (desmos.com)

and notice that no matter what you do, the biggest perimeter you could draw is the perimeter of an equilateral triangle with the side equal to the full capacity of the circuit. The perimeter of the triangle is the combined load on the four wires. So the maximum TOTAL load on the four wires is THREE times the full load of the circuit. So it makes sense to count these four wires as THREE for derating purposes, which are based on the combined load on the wires.

So they tell you that you don't have to count the neutral in your derating calculation, but it's not because the neutral doesn't carry current, it just works for making the calculations.
Worth pointing out that your equation only works for linear circuits (i.e. resistive loads.) When capacitance and/or inductance shift the wave form in time, the loads can add rather than subtract. Harmonics were especially bad because so much of harmonics are triplens, and triplens ALWAYS add. So if 50% of all three circuits' loads are in triplen frequencies, the neutral conductor carries 150% of the phase circuits. It's my understanding that a bunch of fires were attributed to this phenomenon which is why the NFPA went a bit crazy over neutral sharing and under-sizing. It's also my understanding that the initial hysteria was later determined to be way overhyped. But all that is only my understanding from things I've been haphazardly told by various people - your mileage may vary.
 
#35 ·
Due Dilligence: OK, I've checked Article 100, Googled it and checked here on Electrician Talk as well, and it's still not absolutely clear to me (and apparently others) whether the neutral is considered Current Carrying. Some key points I've found are:
  • It does carry current, but is not current carrying conductor (or something like that),
  • and, Yes it is a Current Carrying Conductor, but doesn't always carry current,
  • there are many references to NEC 310.15(B)(4)...which doesn't exist anymore...Whatever.
I'm neck deep in studying Table 310.16 (through Jade Learning, which is excellent), and the values for allowable ampacity need to be modified for conditions such as ambient temperature, number of conductors in a raceway or cable, or other conditions of use. And, as many others say..."it's clear as mud" whether NEC considers the neutral to be a Current Carrying Conductor.

What say you all?

Edit: I just found it in the 2020 NEC Handbook. Section 310.15(E) reminds us that neutral conductors in some cases, is NOT considered current carrying. From where I'm standing, it looks like in all cases but one, is the neutral considered current carrying.

310.15(E) Neutral Conductor. Neutral conductors shall be considered current carrying in accordance with any of the following:
  1. A neutral conductor that carries only the unbalanced current from other conductors of the same circuit shall not be required to be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1).
  2. In a 3-wire circuit consisting of tho phase conductors and the neutral conductor of a 4-wire, 3-phase, wye-connected system, a common conductor carries approximately the same current as the line-to-neutral load currents of the other conductors and shall be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1).
  3. On a 4-wire, 3-phase wye circuit where the major portion of load consists of nonlinear loads, harmonic currents are present in the neutral conductor; the neutral conductor shall therefore be considered a current-carrying conductor.
Additional Commentary text: Nonlinear loads on 3-phase circuits can cause an increase in neutral conductor current.
The neutral is a current currying conductor, no question about it. There are applications where the neutral will not carry current for example when you feed a 3-phase motor from a WYE secondary transformer. You have to bring the 3 phase conductors, the neutral and the equipment grounding conductor to your first disconnect/over current protection device; however, after landing on the neutral bus, the neutral doesn't go anywhere else. Or if you have a three phase panel (with a neutral) with only 3-phase loads. The neutral is supposed to curry the unbalance on a system with 3-phase and single phase loads and in the ideal world the current on the neutral will be zero if the system is perfectly balanced, but this is just in the ideal world.
 
#37 ·
I'd suspect that MWBC's in residential due to the Arc fault regs as well as the current crop of freshly minted dunces they're more trouble than they're worth?

On many contracts sharing neutrals is prohibited now by the specs, probably due to the high harmonics problem which you say is now under better control?
 
#44 ·
Probably. Three possible issues with shared neutrals - load due to triplens, arc fault hijinks, and possible damage or injury from a short circuit backfeeding into one circuit via a shared neutral with the other circuit. On single phase systems, personally I'm not convinced that harmonics (or phantom power) can be severe enough to cause conductor damage or fire. That is, I have been shown the math showing that it's possible to dangerously overload a circuit with a shared neutral of the same size, but I remain unconvinced that a real world system could generate that level of neutral current. I've certainly seen devices whose power factor is at or even below 0.50, but I'd have to be shown that even this can generate more than 50% each without having some offset when combined. (Neutral current I mean - obviously a 0.50 power factor will double the phase current compared to a resistive load.)

That said, I never allow shared neutrals except for circuits whose breakers I intend to tie together, even though I'm unconvinced that it's the problem it was once considered to be.
 
#39 ·
Due Dilligence: OK, I've checked Article 100, Googled it and checked here on Electrician Talk as well, and it's still not absolutely clear to me (and apparently others) whether the neutral is considered Current Carrying. Some key points I've found are:
  • It does carry current, but is not current carrying conductor (or something like that),
  • and, Yes it is a Current Carrying Conductor, but doesn't always carry current,
  • there are many references to NEC 310.15(B)(4)...which doesn't exist anymore...Whatever.
I'm neck deep in studying Table 310.16 (through Jade Learning, which is excellent), and the values for allowable ampacity need to be modified for conditions such as ambient temperature, number of conductors in a raceway or cable, or other conditions of use. And, as many others say..."it's clear as mud" whether NEC considers the neutral to be a Current Carrying Conductor. What say you all? Edit: I just found it in the 2020 NEC Handbook. Section 310.15(E) reminds us that neutral conductors in some cases, is NOT considered current carrying. From where I'm standing, it looks like in all cases but one, is the neutral considered current carrying. 310.15(E) Neutral Conductor. Neutral conductors shall be considered current carrying in accordance with any of the following:
  1. A neutral conductor that carries only the unbalanced current from other conductors of the same circuit shall not be required to be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1).
  2. In a 3-wire circuit consisting of tho phase conductors and the neutral conductor of a 4-wire, 3-phase, wye-connected system, a common conductor carries approximately the same current as the line-to-neutral load currents of the other conductors and shall be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(C)(1).
  3. On a 4-wire, 3-phase wye circuit where the major portion of load consists of nonlinear loads, harmonic currents are present in the neutral conductor; the neutral conductor shall therefore be considered a current-carrying conductor.
Additional Commentary text: Nonlinear loads on 3-phase circuits can cause an increase in neutral conductor current.
Yes a neutral Carries the unbalanced current of the system it is 100%-2000% a current carrying conductor
 
#41 ·
This is not correct. It may carry current but it is not looked on as a current carrying conductor in most cases because of what I described earlier. I also posted the yes and no of neutral as a current carrying conductor.

Read article 310.15 (B)(5). The bold is exactly opposite from what you said

(5) Neutral Conductor.
(a) A neutral conductor that carries only the unbalanced
current from other conductors of the same circuit shall not be
required to be counted when applying the provisions of
310.15(B)(3)(a).

(b) In a 3-wire circuit consisting of two phase conductors
and the neutral conductor of a 4-wire, 3-phase, wye-connected
system, a common conductor carries approximately the same
current as the line-to-neutral load currents of the other
conductors and shall be counted when applying the provisions
of 310.15(B)(3)(a).
(c) On a 4-wire, 3-phase wye circuit where the major
portion of the load consists of nonlinear loads, harmonic
currents are present in the neutral conductor; the neutral
conductor shall therefore be considered a current-carrying
conductor.
 
#40 ·
Once again... because the neutral only carries the imbalance, the heat generated by the full set of conductors (including the neutral) is similar to a circuit fed by hot conductors alone (no neutral) that's why code doesn't count it in the de-rate calcs for a raceway.

It costs an engineer practically nothing to make a specification for dedicated neutrals, larger wire, or a larger conduit. The contractors and customers can fight over the price. :p
 
#42 ·
Once again... because the neutral only carries the imbalance, the heat generated by the full set of conductors (including the neutral) is similar to a circuit fed by hot conductors alone (no neutral) that's why code doesn't count it in the de-rate calcs for a raceway.
Read this over for as many times as it takes for it to sink in.
 
#46 ·
All of this is a moot point for me. We build to plans and specs, which always says no shared neutrals. The handle tie rule for shared neutrals killed it. Before that it was hit or miss in the specs.

The last time I’ve seen an oversized neutral on a job, was probably late 90s. For some reason isolated grounds seam to be making a comeback. What’s the point of an IG when they plug in a touch screen Point of sale with a two prong wall wort? The job I’m on now has a dedicated panel for point of sale. It’s just a 100A panel fed through a 208 to 208 transformer, no I.G. But why bother just to plug in an iPad. It’s probably just to make the engineering company more money?
 
#47 ·
Actually it usually costs us money, although if it's a percentage job (most contracts are fixed fee) we'd make more money. Handle tie rule was when I stopped using shared neutrals - before that I'd always shared neutrals, and only oversized when it was shared circuits feeding computers 'cause switching power supplies used to be really nasty. And I completely agree that I.G. is almost always a waste of money. It's nice to keep such things on dedicated panels if there are twenty or thirty circuits of them, especially if they'd otherwise be sharing a panel with something really nasty like welders, but generally speaking that too is a waste. All electronics work at low voltage DC, and a properly designed power supply should be able to handle pretty much any normal level of distortion. We used to have a theater client (since bought by the Chinese) who insisted on I.G. for all the P.O.S. and computers. Then you go to an old theater and see the exact same equipment running just as well on non-I.G. panels - and as you say, all running through ungrounded wall warts. The only real exception might be medical equipment, where maybe a tiny ripple might induce a tiny but significant disturbance in output and safety requires a ground plug. But even then, unless it's running through an isolation transformer, how much benefit will one ever see at an outlet?
 
#51 ·
When the Shlt hits the fan...
blames something no one really could possibly understand, ... that way...
Nobody gets hurt...
And physics, being non cooperative to any specific desdirable outcome... can't be punished...

Just accepted...

"Because ya canna blam the laws of physics captain!!!"

Amirite?
 
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