[headrec]

I just had a friend who bought a house that has knob and tube wiring in the majority of the house. She wanted me to come look at it and give my opinion. I took a look but I honestly know almost nothing about it. Just did a little google search and before today had only seen pictures of it and heard horror stories from coworkers.

Just wondering if you guys can give me a run down on it. She's looking to replacing all the wiring because she's worried about the potential fire hazard. Wondering if that is really necessary or if there is anything I should help advise her on. Thanks guys! :thumbup:

 

[Wpgshocker]

Gut and re-wire. There is little point doing anything else.

Tell her to find a good drywaller!

 

[FrunkSlammer]

Knob and tube is pretty safe stuff.

Anywho.. insurance companies hate it and homeowners don't understand it.. and you're an electrician and you don't even get it. So basically it's 2 wires run throughout a house.. the hot and the neutral and they rarely come together. The way it was installed is nothing like how we install wiring these days.

If she wants it gone, just leave it in tact.. kill the source of it, remove what you can, and fish in new wires.. it's going to be a massive job.

In my opinion, and it's not necessarily the consensus.. but just update wiring as rooms get renovated. The problem with it seems to be insulation breakdown.. it's so old, it's all brittle and just cracks and falls off. So if you take a switch out, expect to re-insulate the conductors.

Hope this message helps and is a start.. replacing is just a personal thing, unless liability requires replacement. Just let her know it's going to cost a lot of money and it's going to make her house a difficult place to live for a while and there will be repair work needed after.

 

[Hack Work]

It's good that she is asking you, this way she already knows the dangers and you won't have to sell her on it.

Replace it all, give her a modern electric system.

If she has an attic and basement you can do almost all the work without opening walls.

 

[headrec]

Knob and tube is pretty safe stuff.

Anywho.. insurance companies hate it and homeowners don't understand it.. and you're an electrician and you don't even get it. So basically it's 2 wires run throughout a house.. the hot and the neutral and they rarely come together. The way it was installed is nothing like how we install wiring these days.

If she wants it gone, just leave it in tact.. kill the source of it, remove what you can, and fish in new wires.. it's going to be a massive job.

In my opinion, and it's not necessarily the consensus.. but just update wiring as rooms get renovated. The problem with it seems to be insulation breakdown.. it's so old, it's all brittle and just cracks and falls off. So if you take a switch out, expect to re-insulate the conductors.

Hope this message helps and is a start.. replacing is just a personal thing, unless liability requires replacement. Just let her know it's going to cost a lot of money and it's going to make her house a difficult place to live for a while and there will be repair work needed after.

Yeah this is kind of the vibe I got from the little I read. Seems like if the wiring wasn't messed with then there wouldn't be much to worry about. She is planning to redo a few of the front rooms in the house and I think at the least she should redo the wiring while she is in there.

I should add I most likely won't be doing the work...nor want to. She is a real estate agent so she is somewhat aware of certain knowledge about housing and construction. She does have a basement and attic so it won't be a terrible job but very extensive.

 

[Sparky J]

Also remember if left intact, no insulation around it. From what I've herd it's supposed to be free air so it could have major issues in attics and exterior walls if insulation was/is going to be installed.
The last house I removed it in had more butchered wiring problems than the knob and tube. Had it been left alone it would have been pretty sound.

 

[HARRY304E]

Knob and tube is pretty safe stuff.

Anywho.. insurance companies hate it and homeowners don't understand it.. and you're an electrician and you don't even get it. So basically it's 2 wires run throughout a house.. the hot and the neutral and they rarely come together. The way it was installed is nothing like how we install wiring these days.

If she wants it gone, just leave it in tact.. kill the source of it, remove what you can, and fish in new wires.. it's going to be a massive job.

In my opinion, and it's not necessarily the consensus.. but just update wiring as rooms get renovated. The problem with it seems to be insulation breakdown.. it's so old, it's all brittle and just cracks and falls off. So if you take a switch out, expect to re-insulate the conductors.

Hope this message helps and is a start.. replacing is just a personal thing, unless liability requires replacement. Just let her know it's going to cost a lot of money and it's going to make her house a difficult place to live for a while and there will be repair work needed after.

Thanks for pointing out the lack of equipment grounding in a K&T wiring system.

 

[Hack Work]

She does have a basement and attic so it won't be a terrible job but very extensive.

Then she can upgrade it whether the room is being renovated or not.

Even if the wiring itself is fine, chances are there aren't many receptacles and there are too many rooms on each circuit. Why run extension cords and stress the old wiring/splices? Nevermind the fact that there is no grounding.

If she is asking your opinion, it should be that she should upgrade to a modern system. I'm surprised her homeowner's insurance didn't require it.

 

[HARRY304E]

I just had a friend who bought a house that has knob and tube wiring in the majority of the house. She wanted me to come look at it and give my opinion. I took a look but I honestly know almost nothing about it. Just did a little google search and before today had only seen pictures of it and heard horror stories from coworkers.

Just wondering if you guys can give me a run down on it. She's looking to replacing all the wiring because she's worried about the potential fire hazard. Wondering if that is really necessary or if there is anything I should help advise her on. Thanks guys! :thumbup:

Jay take a good look at this picture.

As you can see that is BX cable with BX to K&T change over connectors .

The BX WAS installed between 1899 and about 1950 when they figured out that and equipment ground was needed,many K&T systems were wired this way so that , That BX IS not grounded to the service.

 

[Hack Work]

Even if that BX was grounded to the service, it's still not suitable for use as an equipment grounding conductor.

Rip it out.

 

[wendon]

Most likely it's not just k&t. It probably has some old romex or bx added to it. The biggest problem IMHO is when someone tried to tie a new circuit into the k&t and did a poor job of it. I think the old romex is the most dangerous, brittle wire and brittle insulation.

 

[Galt]

Yes it should all be rewired .but knob and tube was a very good wiring method.The conductors are a foot apart most places.If they had better insulation back then a lot of it would still be in service.when you think about it it's kind of dumb to wrap conductors tightly together then apply a potential difference between them. Always reminded me of two cars going sixty miles an hour in opposite directions separated by a yellow line.

 

[MDShunk]

I'd live in an unmolested K&T house well before I'd be interested in living in an old cloth-covered Romex house. That old cloth covered romex-type stuff is the dangerous stuff, in my opinion.

 

[dspiffy]

Cosign everyone saying K&T is perfectly safe when left unmolested.

Assuming the house has a modern panel with plenty of room . . .

Update any rooms that are already being remodeled, as suggested.

Add modern circuits to other rooms as needed, leaving the K&T alone until those rooms are also remodeled.

You'll probably end up with the K&T being mostly lighting circuits in unremodeled rooms.

 

[Shockdoc]

Old uninsulated especially balloon framed K & T houses are a breeze to rewire, 6 circuits and your'e done in a day.

 

[Hack Work]

I don't know why there would even be a question of what to do. The OP's friend is apparently willing to upgrade if necessary. It doesn't sound like an old lady on a fixed income situation in which she was scared by another contractor and just wants to make sure if her house isn't going to burn down. This situation sounds like the homeowner is willing to improve her home.

Since there is a basement and attic, upgrading is easy and doesn't require the rooms to be fully renovated.

I can't see why any electrician wouldn't recommend an upgrade to a modern and grounded electrical system in this situation.

 

[Hack Work]

Old uninsulated especially balloon framed K & T houses are a breeze to rewire, 6 circuits and your'e done in a day.

Why would you only install 6 circuits? Isn't the point of a rewire to bring it up to today's standards?

 

[8V71]

Thanks for pointing out the lack of equipment grounding in a K&T wiring system.

:shifty:

 

[Shockdoc]

Why would you only install 6 circuits? Isn't the point of a rewire to bring it up to today's standards?

2) kitchen
1) bath
3) lighting

Supersedes what is there and meets the minimum.

 

[Hack Work]

2) kitchen
1) bath
3) lighting

Supersedes what is there and meets the minimum.

I don't get it...