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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

Just want to start by saying, this forum has been great in getting my career started.

I have posted here a several time in the past because I wanted to make an educated decision how how to pursue being an electrician.

As many good pointers I got over the past couple months, I came to a cross road where I was just stuck in between a rock and a hard place.

Basically, I got introduced to the trade by a contractor that gave me a shot to work for him and depending on how I did, he would sponsor me as an apprentice. Things didn't work out at all, I don't blame him cause his going through a hell of a lot more then me, long story short he had to close shop due to complications.

Reading the posts here, i was told by many member's to get local contractor numbers and instead of calling, bang on the doors, get some face time and seek employment that way.

Well I had an on the spot interview today and the gentlemen is now giving me a shot. This contractor is unionized, which doesn't bother me cause my goal is to get into local 353. Sitting there in his office, he told me that depending on how I perform and if all goes well, his company will sponsor me and recommend me to JAC for my training.

Now the question that I have for you all is:

1. Is it possible to get into JAC this way through an employer's recommendation? To my understanding, I thought that you had to apply with JAC once there is an annual intake.

2. Once being in the JAC program, are you then considered a local 353 member/brother? or do you have to complete your training then be qualified to be a member?

3. this one is a bit off topic, but I was also considering move out west to start an apprenticeship. Do you guy think that's a good idea to jump starting my career off the line in alberta, Sask and manitoba? if i decide to go there, my plan is to take a few weeks off and travel out there with my family to see how the job market is, as well to see if we would like living there.(lots of things to consider about this move, I have a kid and it important that she is raised in a good environment)

I thank you guys for hearing me out and I appreciate the replies in advance.
 

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1. Is it possible to get into JAC this way through an employer's recommendation? To my understanding, I thought that you had to apply with JAC once there is an annual intake.

2. Once being in the JAC program, are you then considered a local 353 member/brother? or do you have to complete your training then be qualified to be a member?

3. this one is a bit off topic, but I was also considering move out west to start an apprenticeship. Do you guy think that's a good idea to jump starting my career off the line in alberta, Sask and manitoba? if i decide to go there, my plan is to take a few weeks off and travel out there with my family to see how the job market is, as well to see if we would like living there.(lots of things to consider about this move, I have a kid and it important that she is raised in a good environment)

I thank you guys for hearing me out and I appreciate the replies in advance.

I have actually done exactly what you are talking about.

1) Yes you can do this. It's not the standard path in, but it is allowed. It's not highly publicised but it is called "sponsored apprenticeship". You still have to do the aptitude test and go through a 2-week orientation, but the results of that aptitude test don't affect whether you will be allowed in or not.

2) Yes you are a "member", paying dues, getting benefits etc. but you are required to stay with the same contractor the entire length of your apprenticeship. This being Ontario, that's 9000 hours as required by the Ontario Ministry of Training plus 1800 hours as a "pre-apprentice" making 35% of the Journeyman rate. If you have a falling out with the contractor, they give you the sack and you are no longer a member. You don't get to just look on the list of jobs and get picked up by another contractor except by special consideration. If this happens to you, you will find out just how (un)helpful and smug Erik Hueglin and his staff at the JAC are. They will act friendly with you until you hit a speed bump. In my case I was thrown under the bus for something I had nothing to do with, by an incompetent foreman who was personal friends with the company owner. The JAC doesn't care who was right or wrong. If you're out, you're out. Apprenticeship canceled. I then had no choice about going non-union, which sucked hard.

3) I now live in Calgary and work mostly out of town, non-union. The non-union rate here is equal to what Local 353 pays in Toronto. The union rate is higher, but they don't command anywhere close to the market share they have in Ontario. They are/were strong in the oil patch but people keep saying they're being pushed out of there slowly too. I don't know enough to say if it's true or not.

That said, many guys get their start out here. It is easier to get started with no experience and I know a lot of guys who have started from scratch at the company I work for. In fact they're hiring starters in Edmonton right now. Saskatchewan also is experiencing a boom. Because of the demand for people out here employers seem more likely to treat their employees decently than was my experience in the Toronto area, which is full of mickey mouse small time operations with rusty trucks and psychotic owners. Sure some of them might be good, but I never met any.

If you do decide to move west, make it a point to get different kinds of experience. You can get paid a LOT of money for going up north and doing repetitive monkey work forever like assembling cable tray and pulling Teck cable without learning much, and it's easy to fall into that trap because it pays well. Obviously not all up north work is like that, but it can be.

Personally, I miss Ontario, the family and friends I had there, and the high-end residential work I used to do there, but I don't miss the garbage pay and crap working conditions.

To sum up, if someone is willing to give you a sponsored slot into 353, take it. You can learn a lot there and I worked with some of the best guys I've ever encountered during that time. Be careful about being given the boot, and keep a plan B. Moving west is definitely nice, but it's easier when you're a young single guy like I was when I moved, as opposed to being a family man with more responsibilities. If you have a good opportunity you can take without moving(such as the sponsored apprenticeship) go for it first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
2) Yes you are a "member", paying dues, getting benefits etc. but you are required to stay with the same contractor the entire length of your apprenticeship. This being Ontario, that's 9000 hours as required by the Ontario Ministry of Training plus 1800 hours as a "pre-apprentice" making 35% of the Journeyman rate. If you have a falling out with the contractor, they give you the sack and you are no longer a member. You don't get to just look on the list of jobs and get picked up by another contractor except by special consideration. If this happens to you, you will find out just how (un)helpful and smug Erik Hueglin and his staff at the JAC are. They will act friendly with you until you hit a speed bump. In my case I was thrown under the bus for something I had nothing to do with, by an incompetent foreman who was personal friends with the company owner. The JAC doesn't care who was right or wrong. If you're out, you're out. Apprenticeship canceled. I then had no choice about going non-union, which sucked hard.


Hi Vintage,

Thank you for your response. You actually responded to a few posts of mine and they have been very helpful. You were saying that if there was a "falling out" with the employer that my contract and membership would be cancelled. Does this apply to being laid off as well? it worries me since I have been laid off before with my previous employer and like you said, the job market here in ontario is shaky and I would hate to lose everything I worked for.

Also being registered with JAC, if for any reason I were to be terminated, wouldn't those hours and schooling that I have accumulated count toward my apprenticeship? I thought once your in, that your in and whatever you earn (hours/Schooling) gets credited toward your training. It just sucks to get fired/laid off and having to start form the bottom again.

If you can clarify this for me so I better understand will be great.

Thank you
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
2)
Yes you are a "member", paying dues, getting benefits etc. but you are required to stay with the same contractor the entire length of your apprenticeship. This being Ontario, that's 9000 hours as required by the Ontario Ministry of Training plus 1800 hours as a "pre-apprentice" making 35% of the Journeyman rate. If you have a falling out with the contractor, they give you the sack and you are no longer a member. You don't get to just look on the list of jobs and get picked up by another contractor except by special consideration. If this happens to you, you will find out just how (un)helpful and smug Erik Hueglin and his staff at the JAC are. They will act friendly with you until you hit a speed bump. In my case I was thrown under the bus for something I had nothing to do with, by an incompetent foreman who was personal friends with the company owner. The JAC doesn't care who was right or wrong. If you're out, you're out. Apprenticeship canceled. I then had no choice about going non-union, which sucked hard.
Hi Vintage,

Thank you for your response. You actually responded to a few posts of mine and they have been very helpful. You were saying that if there was a "falling out" with the employer that my contract and membership would be cancelled. Does this apply to being laid off as well? it worries me since I have been laid off before with my previous employer and like you said, the job market here in ontario is shaky and I would hate to lose everything I worked for.

Also being registered with JAC, if for any reason I were to be terminated, wouldn't those hours and schooling that I have accumulated count toward my apprenticeship? I thought once your in, that your in and whatever you earn (hours/Schooling) gets credited toward your training. It just sucks to get fired/laid off and having to start form the bottom again.

If you can clarify this for me so I better understand will be great.

Thank you
sorry for the double reply, just trying to find out how to use this quote function...
 

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Sorry, I should have put, "if you are laid off for any reason". If you are just idle(due to lack of work) without taking a layoff from the company nothing will happen to you. The company could lay you off for whatever - bad job performance, not following rules, not getting along with others, or they are just crappy human beings on a power trip. Doesn't matter, all I'm saying is no matter the reason, the outcome will be the same.

If you get terminated from the JAC, a few things will happen.
- If it happens during your 1800 hour pre-apprenticeship, you never had a contract anyway because you don't get one till you complete those hours. All you will be left with is your Record of Employment.
- If it happens after that(i.e. you have signed your contract) then they cancel that contract and send you packing. I think you are still left with just your ROE and maybe the canceled contract in your hand. That ROE and presumably the canceled contract will say you have X number of hours but they will basically de-indenture you. Technically on paper you stop being an apprentice in the eyes of the system at that point.

To my understanding if you start working with a new non-union contractor they will have to indenture you all over again(i.e. start a "new apprenticeship), and when they do that, your previous hours can be credited to you. This is at the discretion of your new employer, but I can't see why they wouldn't. It worked for me. You will have a sit down session with your boss, yourself and an apprenticeship counselor from the MTCU. That's when that stuff gets hammered out and a new contract drawn up.
 

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I would love to get into the ibew, pretty hard to find a job right now , and alot of buddies havent been laid off since they have joined. A few of my buddies worked for a company that got bought out by a big union contractor, and they all got swapped into the 353
 

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the-apprentice said:
I would love to get into the ibew, pretty hard to find a job right now , and alot of buddies havent been laid off since they have joined. A few of my buddies worked for a company that got bought out by a big union contractor, and they all got swapped into the 353
That must have been Dial One Wolfedale.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The apprentice,

I know getting into the union may seem like a pipe dream and i have been fortunate to find a shop that is considering me a sponsorship.

I know that the 2014 jac intake is going to happen very soon.

So make sure u keep checking there site. If ur really interesting getting in.
 

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Hey guys. I would like to know more about moving to west to find aprenteship.
Bombardier fired a lot of workers and only be hiring next year. I am done waiting for that, so I am willing to travel anywhere in Canada to get my foot in the door. I am 24, been working in construction for two years doing underpinning.

Is pre aprenteship schools worth time and money?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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The apprentice,

I know getting into the union may seem like a pipe dream and i have been fortunate to find a shop that is considering me a sponsorship.

I know that the 2014 jac intake is going to happen very soon.

So make sure u keep checking there site. If ur really interesting getting in.
^ right on. ive been keeping an eye out for intakes, and my buddies who are working for ozz are letting me know whats up
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Vintage,

So when u were laid off, did u then move to Alberta? And if so, im assuming that u had some of ur hours and school transferred to Alberta.

If u can also further explain ur experience getting ur sponsorship would be great like how u got the job, how long it took u to get sponsored and how u eventually got laid off and the process of getting ur cancelled apprenticeship.

I read ur posts in 2009 when u got this opportunity. Seems to me that there alot of hoop jumping. I consider myself as a hard worker, dedicated and alway willing to go over and beyond, but it seems that tho u work hard that ur at the mercy of ur employer. Even tho they may trust and like u. But if there's no work, im sure they would pick keeping there money instead of keeping a person trying to get a union sponsorship
 

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i heard in Alberta they are becoming less and less union friendly and are being pushed out by CLAC which technically isn't a union at all but advertises itself as one.

in Manitoba ALL the big jobs are bid on and won by unionized contractors. glad to be here.
 
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