[ElectricalJoe]

Got a job offer for union CE. I am working non union and it's not going toward a minute of my JM license. It's a little pay cut, about 2 bucks an hour. I will still be able to join the apprentice program once I pass my test and interview.

So my real question is, should I take the pay cut, get my foot in the door, and wait for my test. Or should I just wait til I can go take the test and go straight into apprenticeship? I have 8 months of experience and about 1700 hours.

 

[Haxwoper]

NO.

Becoming a CE/CW is NOT getting your foot in the door, no matter what they tell you. You will be stuck in the CE/CW program.

Apply for the "A" membership and wait it out.

 

[Rollie73]

What exactly is the CE/CW program? Don't think we do that one here.

 

[Haxwoper]

What exactly is the CE/CW program? Don't think we do that one here.

It's an absolutely horrible idea made by the IO in order to get more dues money coming in.

You know all that stuff the IBEW has been saying about highly skilled workers deserving a good pay and benefits package?

Well, what the IBEW is made a program full of less trained workers with a significantly lower pay rate and benefits package. They allow these workers on jobs in "A" journeyman positions.

The point, as they say is to gain marketshare. But in reality, it's to get more dues paying IBEW members for the IO.

It simply makes no sense, the IBEW did exactly what they said they would never do and have always fought against. They gave it all back...

Some locals, such as my own, didn't adopt the CE/CW program like the IO intended. Basically, it's just the old "B" program in which the lower paid workers can only work on small works jobs, or residential. That's fine.

But many locals adopted the full CE/CW program, and right now there are CE/CW workers on large jobs doing the work of "A" journeyman in which they are not trained to do, and they are getting paid far less.

 

[Voltron]

What exactly is the CE/CW program? Don't think we do that one here.

CW...construction wireman
You go to work for a union contractor and receive apprentice scale..with bennies but are not officially in the jatc apprenticeship and also not recognised as an Ibew member.

 

[Next72969]

It's an absolutely horrible idea made by the IO in order to get more dues money coming in. You know all that stuff the IBEW has been saying about highly skilled workers deserving a good pay and benefits package? Well, what the IBEW is made a program full of less trained workers with a significantly lower pay rate and benefits package. They allow these workers on jobs in "A" journeyman positions. The point, as they say is to gain marketshare. But in reality, it's to get more dues paying IBEW members for the IO. It simply makes no sense, the IBEW did exactly what they said they would never do and have always fought against. They gave it all back... Some locals, such as my own, didn't adopt the CE/CW program like the IO intended. Basically, it's just the old "B" program in which the lower paid workers can only work on small works jobs, or residential. That's fine. But many locals adopted the full CE/CW program, and right now there are CE/CW workers on large jobs doing the work of "A" journeyman in which they are not trained to do, and they are getting paid far less.

Kinda like local 3s "m" division?

 

[Voltron]

I did it as a second year up north for a while maybe 6 mo until everyone was laid off...then was offered into the program...but had already had to move to find work when offer came.
The benefits were decent..full blue cross and some of the retirement opportunities seemed to be the same as the members..also you do get punched up accordingly..but I think it would only be good temporarily and if you were just starting out.. basically just to prove your self that you want in. But be ready to take some shlt from members..

 

[biltheref]

A wise man once told my father-in-law:

"It's better to be at the bottom of a twelve foot ladder than at the top of a six foot ladder."

 

[ElectricalJoe]

I really like that quote! Where I am currently working is deadend. There's a handful of guys making 16-17 bucks an hour when here JM rate is 28 bucks. I have a list of questions I'm going to ask before I say yes or no. I appreciate all input. I know I want to stick with electrical. I'm not for or against union, but no non union jobs offer anything in my experience. Even though I know more than half the 4th years I worked with.

 

[Voltron]

[QUOTE="ElectricalJoe;1183761" Even though I know more than half the 4th years I worked with.[/QUOTE]

4square said...

At 8 months? I understand what I think you mean about the other guys but careful with that mindset...
My father in laws been at it 40 years and still learn something everyday
It's definatly easier to think you know than to know.. not being a-hole
Just trying to help

 

[ElectricalJoe]

[QUOTE="ElectricalJoe;1183761" Even though I know more than half the 4th years I worked with.

4square said... At 8 months? I understand what I think you mean about the other guys but careful with that mindset... My father in laws been at it 40 years and still learn something everyday It's definatly easier to think you know than to know.. not being a-hole Just trying to help[/QUOTE]

I completely understand. But these guys may have known code Better than me, but as for work, I pooed on em. The can't grasp the concept of deductions and level and measuring. Even the foremen would rather have me work in high traffic areas. I am definitely respectful to everyone I work with. Well almost. Haha.

 

[Spunk#7]

Just be aware that sometimes the local(BA) takes better care of the contractors than they do the members! The training and experience is great,the best available.

 

[Knightryder12]

Just be aware that sometimes the local(BA) takes better care of the contractors than they do the members! The training and experience is great,the best available.

That is exactly why I got out of the union back in 1990. local 26 in the Northern Virginia/DC area. Didn't find that out till about a year and a half into it. They definitely loved the contractors more than the members. But like you said I did learn a lot from most of the guys I worked with.

 

[Rollie73]

The whole CE/CW idea sounds like a load of crap. I'm certainly happy our local did NOT adopt that foolishness.

 

[ElectricalJoe]

Okay so I didn't take the CE job offer. The guy I talked to sounded like he was against me taking it with my current position. But with that, I got m letter for my aptitude test. Can anyone give me some in sight on what I can expect? Basic knowledge stuff or electrical stuff? I took the exam for BNSF and passed that one. Does anyone know if they're comparable?

 

[HARRY304E]

It's an absolutely horrible idea made by the IO in order to get more dues money coming in.

You know all that stuff the IBEW has been saying about highly skilled workers deserving a good pay and benefits package?

Well, what the IBEW is made a program full of less trained workers with a significantly lower pay rate and benefits package. They allow these workers on jobs in "A" journeyman positions.

The point, as they say is to gain marketshare. But in reality, it's to get more dues paying IBEW members for the IO.

It simply makes no sense, the IBEW did exactly what they said they would never do and have always fought against. They gave it all back...

Some locals, such as my own, didn't adopt the CE/CW program like the IO intended. Basically, it's just the old "B" program in which the lower paid workers can only work on small works jobs, or residential. That's fine.

But many locals adopted the full CE/CW program, and right now there are CE/CW workers on large jobs doing the work of "A" journeyman in which they are not trained to do, and they are getting paid far less.

This is where it started

“If you start bringing in workers for 40 percent of what journeymen make, those journeymen are never going back to work,” said a Local 134 member who asked to remain anonymous. “If the contractors can get it done for less money, that’s what they are going to do.”

They will kill our trade by doing this,and flood the trades with immigrants .

If they want to cut labor costs then cut out all the insurance company's .

 

[BBQ]

This is where it started

They will kill our trade by doing this,and flood the trades with immigrants .

If they want to cut labor costs then cut out all the insurance company's .

Who are they?

 

[Haxwoper]

Who are they?

The contractors, the IO, and the locals who go along with CE/CW in it's original form.

 

[ElectricalJoe]

Me and one other both turned Down the CE position.

 

[HARRY304E]

Who are they?

The masters in the union who probably never worked with the tools themselves ,their view is they must de-professionalize the electrical trade and reduce it to just burger flipper labor,don't get rid of their buddies the insurance company's or anything...:no: