Electrician Talk banner
21 - 40 of 54 Posts

·
Censored Member
Joined
·
21 Posts
Troublemakers? Douche bags?
There is this myth that IBEW members that point out flaws in the IBEW Constitution are troublemakers/douche bags.

There are many IBEW members who do their best to represent the IBEW as the professional organization it is, who try to show tolerance and understanding of everybody's point of view and who believes in professionalism AND they do it by holding corrupt IBEW officers accountable.

They also do it by either pointing out and/or challenging the flaws in the IBEW Constitution and/or challenging policies and Constitution interpretations that do nothing but protect IBEW officers that violate the IBEW Constitution and oppress IBEW members.

Don't be so quick to label a member in a negative manner.
It takes a better man to side with what is right.
It's too easy to side with those in power, as there is no repercussions for that.

http://aud2.uniondemocracy.org/rescuing-democracy-international-brotherhood-electrical-workers
The IBEW was ordered to delete three offending clauses from its constitution and to amend four others to bring them in line with federal law. It reinstated Boswell with full rights, paid him damages, and compensated his attorneys. It was a total victory except for one detail. Both sides agreed not to reveal the terms of settlement. But everything was on the public record, except the financial figures. AUD, not bound by any settlement, publicized the facts, then reported by the Bureau of National Affairs. The settlement was finalized on March 12, 1981, but it took much longer --- six years! --- to dig out the money details.
Like the Laws of our Nations, be proud and give the IBEW Constitution as much access as possible.
http://www.ibew8.org/Uploads/UploadedFiles/docs/IBEW_Constitution.pdf

Sad that the IBEW IO and Locals aren't proud enough to display it on ALL their websites. :001_huh:
 

·
IBEW L.U. 1852
Joined
·
5,261 Posts
Grand Commander........NEVER presume to say who I side with. NEVER presume to say what I stand for and what I will speak out against.

I have always and will continue to be an advocate for change for the better within this organization and believe that transparency is an absolute must within the locals.

I swore to uphold this constitution and I expect the same of other members.

Having said this.......I get the feeling that I speak for a few of the other members here on ET and more than a few of the IBEW members here when I say that now is a good time for you to stop fishing for support in your personal vendetta against certain members and officers of local 353.

This is NOT what ElectricianTalk is all about.:no: Keep your issues with your local....in your local.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
You know.....I've asked this question myself. Usually its posed to the higher echelons of our organization and have yet to be given a satisfactory answer.

There is no secret code, no hallowed handshake, no directions to the fountain of electrical knowledge....nothing. Why is it so hard to find?


The only reason I can think of is that IBEW considers it a contract between the union and its members.
I agree Rollie73, and so far Canadian law has agreed, for the most part.

After I posted earlier today, I researched some issues I referred to regarding union disclosure, Canadian law, and American law.

In the U.S. they have LMRDA, ( Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act ), here in Canada we do not. Some local dissidents were trying to introduce such motions into local bylaws, but I don't think they were successful.

Our conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper, has introduced bill C-377 to allow our Canadian government similar powers to force unions to disclose internal documents, such as salaries and other financial information, plus much more. But, ironically the conservative senators are blocking it, with help from unions and other labour organizations. :eek::laughing:

As for troublemakers, and complainers, I remember reading a statement from Buzz Hargrove regarding dissident members, and I must paraphrase as I don't have his actual quote. Dissident members are not only a reality, but necessary for a strong union to grow and move forward. :thumbsup:

Borgi
 

·
Censored Member
Joined
·
21 Posts
Grand Commander........NEVER presume to say who I side with. NEVER presume to say what I stand for and what I will speak out against.

I have always and will continue to be an advocate for change for the better within this organization and believe that transparency is an absolute must within the locals.

I swore to uphold this constitution and I expect the same of other members.

Having said this.......I get the feeling that I speak for a few of the other members here on ET and more than a few of the IBEW members here when I say that now is a good time for you to stop fishing for support in your personal vendetta against certain members and officers of local 353.

This is NOT what ElectricianTalk is all about.:no: Keep your issues with your local....in your local.
Rollie73,
your union pride, just like mine and thousands of others is admirable. The oath you took, like thousands of others, does not mean that you should ignore the flaws of the constitution. AND it especially means you should not ignore the violations of the constitution either.< (that's in the IBEW Constitution by the way ;) ) That oath would include the duty to correct and amend the constitution. Thankfully, the constitution was amended, unfortunately it had to be amended by the American Federal Courts.

As for you stating that I shouldn't presume what you think?
I would suggest that you stop presuming that I have a personal vendetta, when I uphold the constitution by shedding some light on those that violate the constitution.

Whether you speak for a few or more IBEW members here is irrelevant. I don't believe this is a union meeting where the microphone can be turned off to silence your right to voice an opinion.
You have the right to express your opinion and you have done that. Now move along if you don't wish to engage in discussion on how to improve the IBEW.

As for the "trouble makers" you keep mentioning?
If they show up, no worries. I can handle them. The benefits of being union usually outweighs that being non-union. Debating the pros/cons of the IBEW Constitution isn't much of a problem, as it would have been before the U.S. federal Court amended it.

ElectricianTalk is about being an electrician. It's not a union site but they felt that it deserved a section. If there are rules that restrict what you can discuss in this union section, please post the link.

But back to the topic here:
http://www.ibew8.org/Uploads/UploadedFiles/docs/IBEW_Constitution.pdf

I doubt that the troublemakers know the constitution well enough to cause trouble.
They can go ahead and try and get some mileage out of information that reveals how members have trouble with corrupt union officers but they wouldn't get far at all.

Have faith in those that expose corruption!
Keeping things hidden and secret only gives the troublemakers the fuel they need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
Just to follow up on my earlier post regarding Unions in Canada not normally having to disclose internal documents or information, here is a great article by Michael Lynk on that very subject:

http://www.yorku.ca/julabour/volume1/jl_lynk.pdf

Mind you, as I have said before, Harper is trying to change all that with Bill C-377, but his motives are not to protect the rank and file of Unions. :eek: :laughing:

Borgi
 

·
Censored Member
Joined
·
21 Posts
http://www.yorku.ca/julabour/volume1/jl_lynk.pdf
A quote from that article.

There is little debate among observers of contemporary industrial relations that unions can only fulfil their social and economic mission if they are democratic institutions.

The focus among labour lawyers and legislators, however, has been on the degree of intervention that the law should make into the internal affairs of trade unions.

Some prominent Canadian labour lawyers and academics have argued that a more elaborate code of democratic conduct must be legislated in order to ensure that the right to dissent, the right to be heard, and the right to participate are properly protected. This argument for a union members’ bill of rights in Canada is based not so much on any historic or contemporary pattern of entrenched abusive behaviour, as it is on the growing political and economic role of trade unions in modern society and the consequent public responsibilities that come with that role. Implicit in this view is the acceptance that the law can play a substantial role in ensuring membership control and participation by regulating the democratic behaviour of trade unions.

Others have maintained that the present level of legal supervision is sufficient to ensure that unions are fair and responsive to their members, although many of the powers presently possessed by the courts should be removed and placed with labour relations boards. This view is premised on the belief that unions, as essentially private organizations, should be permitted the greatest degree of autonomy possible that is consistent with ensuring that their membership is entitled to fairness in matters concerning both collective agreements and internal affairs.
Those that don't believe that there should be better laws to ensure that unions allow the right to dissent, the right to be heard, and the right to participate fail to realize that the current degree of autonomy has union officers denying the membership their entitlement to fairness in matters concerning both collective agreements and internal affairs.

You could argue that there is no evidence to call for better laws to protect union members' rights.
Well, no evidence is probably because union officers threaten members to keep things private, even if they are public information. And too many union members believe that you shouldn't 'air dirty laundry', which further exacerbates the problem of finding relief from corrupt union officers.

But back to the topic here:
http://www.ibew8.org/Uploads/Uploade...nstitution.pdf
 

·
IBEW L.U. 1852
Joined
·
5,261 Posts
As for you stating that I shouldn't presume what you think?
I would suggest that you stop presuming that I have a personal vendetta, when I uphold the constitution by shedding some light on those that violate the constitution.

Have faith in those that expose corruption!
Keeping things hidden and secret only gives the troublemakers the fuel they need.
Here's my problem with your crap here.

You have come here and dredged up an old topic that you posted approximately 5 years ago about alleged corruption within your local. Neither that thread, nor the link you provided in the thread, have given any actual proof of this alleged corruption.

Come back to me with some proof, some corroborating testimony or evidence from another member, something to disprove my statement that this is a personal vendetta against your local and I will certainly begin to take you seriously, or have faith in those that expose corruption.

Until that time, I will continue to look at you as a one trick pony who just wants to beat the same drum all day and whine about the corruption that holds him back within his local.:rolleyes:
 

·
Censored Member
Joined
·
21 Posts
Rollie73,
As you pointed out in your own post about LU 1852, corruption happens.
Did you lose faith in those that exposed that corruption.
I don't believe you've covered enough material to form an opinion yet.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.971603346223764&type=1


Go here if you want to discuss how to protect the IBEW:
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f26/...icers-how-do-we-deal-them-113161/#post2065410


Thank you to the IBEW Local Union 8 for downloading this PDF of the IBEW Constitution for the world to see. :thumbup:

http://www.ibew8.org/Uploads/UploadedFiles/docs/IBEW_Constitution.pdf

Here is another PDF link to the IBEW Constitution 2012:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/269864479/IBEW-Constitution-2012 :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
596 Posts
My last encounter with the local involved a contractor who was taking out 5% instead of 3% from my 1st paycheck for union deductions. I told the contractor,problem continued,mentioned it to the other guys on the job,caused somewhat of a mutiny. I was promptly laid off, (surprise) still didn't get my back pay until I went personally into the hall and complained. Apparently the other guys had been involuntarily donating 2% to the contractor for quite a while and may be still.
 

·
IBEW L.U. 1852
Joined
·
5,261 Posts
Rollie73,
As you pointed out in your own post about LU 1852, corruption happens.
Did you lose faith in those that exposed that corruption.
I don't believe you've covered enough material to form an opinion yet.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.971603346223764&type=1


Go here if you want to discuss how to protect the IBEW:
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f26/ibew-corrupt-local-union-officers-how-do-we-deal-them-113161/#post2065410
https://

See now............there you go doing that same trick again. Beating on the same old drum.

Thanks for proving my point about you being a one trick pony.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
Now I am asking the site moderators or administrators this question:

Do you condone Grand Commander pretending to be a respectful Union member in local 353, in order to discredit him and his Union?

The Perry Speranza I know and respect, would NOT act the way Grand Commander is acting on any forum. He has never hidden behind a user name, like I think is happening here.

Stop this nonsense right now, or prove otherwise. :thumbsup:

It's not fair to the honest members of this site.

Now, to Grand Commander, if you are Perry Speranza, which I seriously doubt you are, say so. Then I will proceed from there. You sound like Mike Thomas! The complaining apprentice from local 424. :eek::laughing:

Anyone can copy and paste from Perry's site and pretend to be him. ;)

Borgi
 

·
Censored Member
Joined
·
21 Posts
I take offence to the name calling and false accusations directed towards me.

• Forum Posting Rules:
• Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on ElectricianTalk.com. Name calling, personal attacks, threats or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause you account to be banned.
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f26/announcements/
IBEW Constitution
Article 25 - MISCONDUCT,
OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
Sec. 1.
Any member may be penalized for committing any one or more of the following offenses:

(b) Having knowledge of the violation of any provision of this Constitution, or the bylaws or rules of a L.U., yet failing to file charges against the offender or to notify the proper officers of the L.U.
http://www.ibew769.com/library/constitution/article25.htm

No other IBEW member or officer will have knowledge, if the violations are not exposed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
I take offence to the name calling and false accusations directed towards me.

• Forum Posting Rules:
• Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on ElectricianTalk.com. Name calling, personal attacks, threats or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause you account to be banned.
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f26/announcements/
IBEW Constitution
Article 25 - MISCONDUCT,
OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
Sec. 1.
Any member may be penalized for committing any one or more of the following offenses:

(b) Having knowledge of the violation of any provision of this Constitution, or the bylaws or rules of a L.U., yet failing to file charges against the offender or to notify the proper officers of the L.U.
http://www.ibew769.com/library/constitution/article25.htm

No other IBEW member or officer will have knowledge, if the violations are not exposed.
So you are admitting that you are NOT Perry Speranza? ;)

Let's move on, there are many, many fake user names here, like all on line sites. Just wanted to protect Perry's good name.

Don't feed this troll! :eek::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Borgi
 

·
Censored Member
Joined
·
21 Posts
You had no reason to protect Perry's good name because I never attacked his good name.
Why don't you just stop attacking me Borgi?


IBEW Constitution
Article 25 - MISCONDUCT,
OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
Sec. 1.
Any member may be penalized for committing any one or more of the following offenses:

(b) Having knowledge of the violation of any provision of this Constitution, or the bylaws or rules of a L.U., yet failing to file charges against the offender or to notify the proper officers of the L.U.
http://www.ibew769.com/library/constitution/article25.htm

No other IBEW member or officer will have knowledge, if the violations are not exposed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
You had no reason to protect Perry's good name because I never attacked his good name.
Why don't you just stop attacking me Borgi?



IBEW Constitution
Article 25 - MISCONDUCT,
OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
Sec. 1.
Any member may be penalized for committing any one or more of the following offenses:

(b) Having knowledge of the violation of any provision of this Constitution, or the bylaws or rules of a L.U., yet failing to file charges against the offender or to notify the proper officers of the L.U.
http://www.ibew769.com/library/constitution/article25.htm

No other IBEW member or officer will have knowledge, if the violations are not exposed.
You are pretending to be Perry Speranza, that is an attack on his good name! Period!:eek:

I am not attacking you, I am defending Perry and the IBEW's right to speak openly regarding important labour issues. :thumbsup:

As is your right to speak, it just holds less weight when you are not honest about who you are. :mad:

Borgi
 
21 - 40 of 54 Posts
Top