[martianlawnmower]

Hi all,
I was asked to install a motion sensor light switch in a short hallway which already had 3 mechanical switches. The center switch would have been an ideal spot for it, but a 4-way switch was there. I had no neutral for the switch, and no way to run another wire back to the panel. However, there was a j-box for another panel near my 4-way. I am wondering if it is legal to give the motion sensor hots from the 4-way, and tie into another panels neutral.
Thanks,
Alex

 

[480sparky]

No .

 

[sparkie2010]

Do it right. Don't take short-cuts. No it not code legal to run a grounded conductor to another panel.

Rewire the hall switchs , good luck

 

[martianlawnmower]

Re: 4-way and motion sensor

Thanks. I assumed it was no legal so I left it for now. But it will have to be done at some point. How about MC to the nearest box I can find from that panel? It's a military base and we never have adequate tools for the job.

 

[480sparky]

You can't just 'pick up a neutral from that panel. It needs to be the neutral for that circuit.

 

[martianlawnmower]

I thought that was a brand new rule, that every circuit requires its own neutral...I can't add three lights to another circuit with three lights?

 

[Wirenuting]

Thanks. I assumed it was no legal so I left it for now. But it will have to be done at some point. How about MC to the nearest box I can find from that panel? It's a military base and we never have adequate tools for the job.

I work on a military base, your comment of "never having adequate tools" is as lame as I've ever heard for a simple light.
If your not qualified to do the job, don't do it.
Tell your supervisor to send someone who can do it correctly.

It's sad but for over 30 years I've had to listen to workers like yourself complain how you couldn't do it correctly.
It's sad because I'm always stuck fixing workers like yourselfs screw ups.
It's sad because very few workers care.

How about you go sit yourself back in your truck and take a nap. Or better yet, go in a mechanical room and play cards or strip some copper for free scrap $$.

 

[martianlawnmower]

Well, golly, thanks for the snap assessment. I'd love to do the job right but the people above me make the decisions and they have opted to not have conduit or benders available. Also, I don't work there regularly. It's not my base not my shop. And yes, I'm new to the trade

 

[Wirenuting]

Well, golly, thanks for the snap assessment. I'd love to do the job right but the people above me make the decisions and they have opted to not have conduit or benders available. Also, I don't work there regularly. It's not my base not my shop. And yes, I'm new to the trade

If your new then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Stand up for what's right now, don't wait until you become a federal slug. I've been informed that I'll never go anywhere, will never see a promotion and will never again receive a bonus. I'm happy for that as unlike so many, I'm honest and can't stand pothead thief's who cheat the system for personal gains at the expense of unknowing military personal's safety. If your shop doesn't not have the equipment then they do not plan to do the work and would prefer it be contracted out. Do it right or don't do it at all. If it is done wrong, Or unsafely or is a danger, report it to the IG, (no ships), or what ever department you belong to.

 

[martianlawnmower]

This is a not a "shangri-la" base and I don't have access to those departments. I have also heard rumor that the reason my unit works on it is because the building contains the armory and they don't want civilian contractors working in there...

I would also like to ask, because no one in my chain knows...if the army did not purchase the wrong type of switch, because they look almost identical

http://www.wattstopper.com/products/sensors/ceiling-or-wall-mount-sensors/ci-355.aspx#.UtlwUWQo7fY

vs.

http://www.wattstopper.com/products/sensors/ceiling-or-wall-mount-sensors/dt-355.aspx#.Utlwn2Qo7fY

The CI-355 has instructions for hooking two up in parallel. What does that mean for a switch? The DT-355 has instructions for three-way installation...but the schematics for each switch look identical...are they not the same thing but with a different switching mechanism?

 

[sbrn33]

Is there not a grounded conductor at one of the end switches? Rewire it and you're done.

 

[martianlawnmower]

The "clients" have requested three-way motion sensor installation in hallways. The existing three-ways are all mechanical...I did swap out one end successfully and had a motion sensor on only one side of the hallway. Without the possbility of running conduit, though, I am not sure if I can put another motion sensor at the other end.

We talked about throwing boatloads of MC up in the drop ceiling instead, but as a junior member of the team, my opinion is not listened to much.

 

[sbrn33]

Put a s1 motion in each switch. Use one of the travellers for the neutral. seems pretty basic.

 

[martianlawnmower]

s1? Yes, I wanted to tie the traveler into the neutral (gold-colored) but I wasn't sure if that was legal

 

[Wirenuting]

This is a not a "shangri-la" base and I don't have access to those departments. I have also heard rumor that the reason my unit works on it is because the building contains the armory and they don't want civilian contractors working in there... I would also like to ask, because no one in my chain knows...

Are you active duty, public works or a contractor?

The rumors aways say "they, them, aren't".
We go in the armory all the time. We go anyplace we are told. We are a public works dept. We have a 0-9 as a commanding officer but the workers are civilian. And yes we contract out all work that we can't do. It just costs more to do that and times are tight with $$$.

 

[Wirenuting]

BTW Martainlawnmower, I'm not trying to bust on you.
ET is a great place for advice that you can use to support the need to do things correctly. This sight has a lot of great talent.
Just remember that if your a WG or GS your career will slow to a halt if you force your boss o do things correctly.

 

[ce2two]

Well, golly, thanks for the snap assessment. I'd love to do the job right but the people above me make the decisions and they have opted to not have conduit or benders available. Also, I don't work there regularly. It's not my base not my shop. And yes, I'm new to the trade

You are martian GREEN ,very green,no disrespect..

 

[480sparky]

I thought that was a brand new rule, that every circuit requires its own neutral...I can't add three lights to another circuit with three lights?

There's no such rule.

But you can't just use ANY neutral you can find...... you need the neutral for the circuit you're adding to.

This isn't working on your car/find any old ground on the body or frame.

 

[martianlawnmower]

I'm a reservist on a base that is not related to my unit. The army uses us as free labor. I've worked one commercial job, and my test for the IBEW is in two weeks.

 

[480sparky]

I'm a reservist on a base that is not related to my unit. The army uses us as free labor. I've worked one commercial job, and my test for the IBEW is in two weeks.

I don't recall any of those as being Exceptions in the NEC.