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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is in Texas, pier and beam home. The man bought the house recently. Already has panel uograde, new wiring in a kitchen remodel. fresh paint throughout whole house.

Old knob and tube wiring for everything except kitchen. 1500sq. ft. home

This home looks very nice right now. Very clean attic, very clean under home.

He asked me to come give a bid on rewiring the rest of the home. I told him, IMO I would not rewire, I would just do grounding. Since the home looks so nice as it is, why tear it up, with sheetrock patching ?

ANYWAY, The main question is,
Running seperate ground verses looping wire from ground screw on recepticle, to neutral. Whats better ?

Since the grounds and neutrals are not seperated in panel, would it not suffice, looping a wire from ground screw, to neutral terminal, on recepticle ? Ive allways wondered about this
 

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ANYWAY, The main question is,
Running seperate ground verses looping wire from ground screw on recepticle, to neutral. Whats better ?

Since the grounds and neutrals are not seperated in panel, would it not suffice, looping a wire from ground screw, to neutral terminal, on recepticle ? Ive allways wondered about this
OK, first off. Are you an electrician???
A real electrician would NEVER, EVER, even consider bootlegging a ground by "looping wire from ground screw on recepticle, to neutral". This is a very basic thing.

Also, running a ground wire as opposed to re-wiring is a hack job IMO. It is just as easy to re-wire as it would be to run a single ground wire. Every box would have to be accessed and opened in either case.

If you did run just a ground wire where would you run it to?
 

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Why not GFI-protect them, allowing you to install grounded receps? 406.3(D)(3)(c).

Using the neutral as a ground will put you on the hack track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OK, first off. Are you an electrician???
A real electrician would NEVER, EVER, even consider bootlegging a ground by "looping wire from ground screw on recepticle, to neutral". This is a very basic thing.

Also, running a ground wire as opposed to re-wiring is a hack job IMO. It is just as easy to re-wire as it would be to run a single ground wire. Every box would have to be accessed and opened in either case.

If you did run just a ground wire where would you run it to?
I dont know where your from, but its very coomon here. to run a seperate ground wire.

If I were to run a seperate wire, of course I would take it to a cold water pipe

Why is it a bootleg, when they are on the same terminal bar in the panel ? I dont think you have the brains, to explain that, so dont try :no:
 

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Why not GFI-protect them, allowing you to install grounded receps? 406.3(D)(3)(c).

Using the neutral as a ground will put you on the hack track.
I agree.

I'm curious why the electrician who did the panel upgrade didn't advise replacement before the fresh paint, or sell GFCI breakers for the knob and tube.
 

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If I were to run a seperate wire, of course I would take it to a cold water pipe
Just any old cold water pipe right? That is what I thought. WRONG answer.





Why is it a bootleg, when they are on the same terminal bar in the panel ? I dont think you have the brains, to explain that, so dont try :no:
And I don't think you know who I am and that I have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about. I do this for a living so I had better.
It is also not my place to have to explain DIY topics to you on this "professional's only" site.

ARE you an electrician or not?
 

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I dont know where your from, but its very coomon here. to run a seperate ground wire.

If I were to run a seperate wire, of course I would take it to a cold water pipe

Why is it a bootleg, when they are on the same terminal bar in the panel ? I dont think you have the brains, to explain that, so dont try :no:
The neutral carries current, remember? This would make anything connected to the ground (frames of anything plugged in, for instance) a potential hazard.
 

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Check 406.3(D)(3)
 

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Town Drunk
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Also 250.130(C)
 

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250.142 is the most important one.
 

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This is in Texas, pier and beam home. The man bought the house recently. Already has panel uograde, new wiring in a kitchen remodel. fresh paint throughout whole house.

Old knob and tube wiring for everything except kitchen. 1500sq. ft. home

This home looks very nice right now. Very clean attic, very clean under home.

He asked me to come give a bid on rewiring the rest of the home. I told him, IMO I would not rewire, I would just do grounding. Since the home looks so nice as it is, why tear it up, with sheetrock patching ?

ANYWAY, The main question is,
Running seperate ground verses looping wire from ground screw on recepticle, to neutral. Whats better ?

Since the grounds and neutrals are not seperated in panel, would it not suffice, looping a wire from ground screw, to neutral terminal, on recepticle ? Ive allways wondered about this
You cannot be a professional electrician and seriously be asking this. This isn't an attack, so don't get offended. Are you an apprentice doing work on the side?

Look, the ground and neutral are together in the panel, fine. The reason they are separate from there on is safety. If that neutral were to open, then the ground on the receptacle would become hot, as would anything plugged into it. Dangerous.

On the other hand, just running a separate ground to any ole water pipe doesn't solve the problem either. The pipe must be continuous, and must be grounded to the service equipment anyhow. Doing it this way may be OK for one receptacle. But if you do all of them, you might as well update the wiring. Like Speedy Pete said, you still have to open every box anyhow, and if you can get a ground wire in it without destroying the wall, then you can get a 12-2 in there too.

InPhase277
 

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I would take it to a cold water pipe

Why is it a bootleg, when they are on the same terminal bar in the panel ? I dont think you have the brains, to explain that, so dont try :no:

Wow, this is definitely a not very experienced apprentice doing a side job.

00Funk, please tell the homeowner that you aren't interested anymore in the job, FOR HIS OWN GOOD. Or you can tell him the truth that you really don't know what you're doing and you're in over your head and you're not able to provide a code-compliant, safe installation for him and his family. :no:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
OK, I think Im going to advise him, to just go with GFCI breakers for the knob and tube.

Is it OK to use 3 prong outlets, if I do this ?

Thankyou for your feedback. Much appreciated
 

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Is it OK to use 3 prong outlets, if I do this ?
Ok. I'm sorry. This has gone on long enough.

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