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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is a resteraunt that needed a network upgrade. The resteraunt is having addition added, so more POS and pin pads need cable drops.

Normally, I am not involved swich/patch upgrades, just adding in a cable ro two but glad for this kind of work.

I need some clarity as to what length of cat5e cables needed to be ordered to clean up this install, and do a better job at the next installation.

My order included 10 2 foot cables, 10 3 foot cables and 10 seven foot cables from a US distributor.

Now, for this 4U wall bracket 12 inches deep installed.
Should I have ordered the .5 and one foot cables so the amount of cables do not fill up this managment holder?. Also, is the black holder, which its door and two thumb screws at each end called a cable managment holder or is there better terminoligy for this cover?

This cable holder, is a 2u. Is to small for a 24 port patch panel? Should have been a 3u size?

I ordered cat6 cables and now thinking about it, was over kill but the price difference between cat5e and cat6 was negligable. I should have ordered cat5e patch cables, because this holder is packed with these two foot cables and had to leave the resteraunt and not finish the cable managment.

What man-hour labor would you have charged if:

- Changing a 6 inch deep 4u to a 12 inch 4u?
- Cutting over the network from small cheap switches to a new added cisco switch?
- Drilling a new hole for a 1/4 bolt for the ground wire
- Testing each drop with a employee that each POS and Pin pad and 4 kitchen printers were working?

This is a resteraunt, so the foot travel to the network closet to the dinning area of this upscale resteraunt is short. I was in communication with the staff by radio to ask to test each pos when cable cut over to new switch.

For a typical 12 or 24 port switch, what patch cable qty and lengths should have been ordered?

Lastly, who is generally responsible for including the drop cables at each wall outlet ? the POS installer or me, the network infrastructue guy?


Thanks much!!




 

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Data Tech/Apprentice.
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8 man hours shooting from the hip. I would have ordered all 1.5ft patch leads and added cable management into my bid. POS guy supplies his own patch leads
 

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Electrical Contractor
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Usually the electrician will install the pathway. That part is a given.
Most of the POS guys want the cables pulled and terminated. They will supply their own hardware and patch cables. So I do all the Cat 5 for them, usually charging the customer for my work.
If the electrician is finished, then give the owner or POS guy a price to install the cables.
Permits are usually the reason the electrician installs the cabling. Most POS or network guys don't have the licensing to pull permits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Thanks guys

I do not want to assume but it would make sence the POS companies would include there own drop cables.

Thanks for the info on neet patch. BTW, is this cable managment cover not high enough to cover 24 cables? I would order some shorter cables of .5 to 1 foot to 1.5 feet or, is the .5 feet not nessesary? I just want to hide the cables but dont want the storage cover to full, where I cannot shut the lid.

Okay, the term of the cover that hides the cables is a high capacity horizontal cable organizer. Do they come in varios hights to accompany wider patch panels "24,48" and so on?

12 jacks and 12 patch cables were pre-existing. All were black. So, replaced all except the 2 black cables going to the serial printer concentrators. Took me about 3-4 hours. Still need cable clean up but..I think two foot cables are a bit to long and stuffed half of the patch cables into the manager.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think you mean drop cables

Correct terminology - Patch cables are for the patch panel. Drop cables are for the end outlets to end stations.


Usually the electrician will install the pathway. That part is a given.
Most of the POS guys want the cables pulled and terminated. They will supply their own hardware and patch cables. So I do all the Cat 5 for them, usually charging the customer for my work.
If the electrician is finished, then give the owner or POS guy a price to install the cables.
Permits are usually the reason the electrician installs the cabling. Most POS or network guys don't have the licensing to pull permits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Sarness, that looks great. Never seen orange patch cables before. Here in BC, it is blue for data, white for voice and Red for backbone "easy to identify as a horizontal cable" But for backbone patch, never seen a red one. It is understood that the first port is often the backbone port. It is also good idea to sting two backbone cables spread appart in the horizontal pulls so in the event one fails, the second one can take over.

Okay just watched the youtube vidio of neetpatch, that is cool design! it is deep so the cable length is not such a issue when trying to tuck them into shallow patch cable organizers. I imagine it being made of plastic, it wll cost less then typical metal organizers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The electrican who is to pay me, is saying his accountant is on holidays

Should possible non payment for bom and labor be in another forum group?


A week ago, he said he would cut me a check or I can pick it up. Now, I asked about payment, and he said his accountant is on holidays?? This is my first install, as a LV technican under a electrican. There was verbal agreements on this installation. I install 20 ibdn belden jacks 10 at patch 10 at wall plates. Full labeling on horizontal drops and at patch cables. Patchs plate is also labled. Provided a panasonic phone move and moved jumper on demark. Installed new cisco switch, and new u4 12 inch deep wall bracket. Replaced black patch cables for all blue cables and kept the black ones. Installed drop cables at wall outlets.

This is install is in BC Canada and not sure if he does not pay, if I can place a lien on the property without a contract. I did ask for one here on the forums, and never got a reponce.

Total bill for labor is around 825.00 at 60.00 per hour includeding gst/pst tax.

If he does not pay then what??

Should I inform the General Contractor? He pays the electrican, who pays me.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
he is going to pay me

I will see that a agreed contract is created. What about small jobs aka, install a line or a PA speaker?

Ohh and, if he is the electrican, I am sure I will have to make a reduced rate since he needs a cut of the total charges made to the customer. Example, he would bill the cutomer 70.00. I would normally charge a direct customer 60.00. If it is his customer which is the electrician, what would be the normal billing rate percentage? I bill him 70% of his rate? 60% of his rate? I am doing all the work, he is just sending me referals?
 

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Spaghetti Cleaner
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I didn't order the patch cables, person I contracted for did, I just install them.

But yeah, I usually have blue for all my data patches, I have red but reserve it for crossover cables, backbones usually are orange. I also have black that I use for drops, tend to hide better then blue, but I have both.

Typically I try follow what the customer already has, which is either consistent, or a complete mess. If it's a mess I do it my way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sarness,

I billed for half the patch cables that are blue not thinking the first half were black. My mistake. So just replaced the ones that were active and black and put in my blue patch cables. Never seen orange cables here in BC. A large national com company I worked for used two reds for backbone cables from MDF switches to IDF switches. Rest is generally blue in color. BTW, that is a good point about black drop cables being less visible. I will have to remember that. Those would work best in a resteraunt, while blue drop cables work best in a insurance office. Black drop cables for black cisco and polycom phones...if the customer is picky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
orange for backbone may be a good idea

Since fiber is run in plastic loose tube, would make sence to also make the backbone cable also orange for switch to switch.

I have checked out cable managment product called neat patch. Can the label be taken off the front cover? Do not want the compitition to see it :)
 
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