[jett95]

I went to install a occupancy sensor in a older knob n tube house which didnt have a noodle in the switch box, what are some easier and quick ways so i can make this dumb thing work. Key words "EASY AND QUICK"

 

[Shockdoc]

P & S makes a two wire model that uses the resistive load as the neutral.

 

[Sixty hertz]

Take it back and get a two wire occupancy switch. Not all of them require
A neutral

 

[jett95]

P & S makes a two wire model that uses the resistive load as the neutral.

How much do they cost

 

[Shockdoc]

How much do they cost

Cheap , about $20 to 25, LOWES had them the last time I got them .

 

[MHElectric]

There are quite a few OC out on the market which dont require a neutral.....I never did fully understand how they work, but hey, they work, who cares.

Seems like P&S was the brand that didn't need a neutral, I cant remember. A call to the SH tomorrow morning will clear this up for you.

 

[Semi-Ret Electrician]

If you don't have a neutral:

You can hook it up to see if it workes, then lift the EGC, if it still works it's the good kind.

The old style were even UL listed but returned electronic power on the EGC:no:

 

[jett95]

I found one that didnt need a neutral but wanted a ground to function properly

 

[jett95]

I found one that didnt need a neutral but wanted a ground to function properly

 

[Big John]

I don't believe I've ever seen an occupancy sensor that had neither a neutral or ground. I think the "no neutral" variety cheat around that by intentionally using a very small amount of ground-fault current.

 

[jett95]

Billows nor lowes had them

 

[Big John]

Billows nor lowes had them

They really only have two wires? What model?

 

[jett95]

Sensor switch ipd series

 

[MHElectric]

I don't believe I've ever seen an occupancy sensor that had neither a neutral or ground. I think the "no neutral" variety cheat around that by intentionally using a very small amount of ground-fault current.

I had a hunch that was how the no neutral brands worked. Ive never really cared to look into it, I was just satisfied with the fact that it worked.

That surprises me that they can still get a UL listing. It must not be enough current being put on the ground to worry anybody. Interesting.

 

[Big John]

...That surprises me that they can still get a UL listing. It must not be enough current being put on the ground to worry anybody. Interesting.

If I remember right, the substantiation for the amendment that now requires neutrals in switch boxes was because of concern about cumulative EGC current from all these electronic switches.

It seems to ignore the fact that even if you have a neutral present, if you're installing the type that use the EGC, you still have the same problem.

Also, I looked at the model OP posted, and it does not have a neutral or EGC, so if that technology is available, why do we need that amendment?

 

[CraigV]

If I remember right, the substantiation for the amendment that now requires neutrals in switch boxes was because of concern about cumulative EGC current from all these electronic switches.

It seems to ignore the fact that even if you have a neutral present, if you're installing the type that use the EGC, you still have the same problem.

Also, I looked at the model OP posted, and it does not have a neutral or EGC, so if that technology is available, why do we need that amendment?

There needs to be either a neutral or an EGC connection pretending to be a neutral.

 

[Big John]

There needs to be either a neutral or an EGC connection pretending to be a neutral.

I thought the same thing, but check out the switch OP posted: http://www.sensorswitch.com/DataSheets/IPD.pdf It really looks like it's legitimately two-wire.

It apparently uses continuity through the load for a neutral when the load is de-energized. When energized, I don't know what they're doing; looking at the tiny little bit of VD across the switch...?