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I pretwist and then use wire nuts. Solder pots rule.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As anyone tried the new Lithonia LED 2x4 drop in's (2GTL4-LP840) or the 4' wrap a rounds (LBL4-LP840)?
We just received a couple of pallets of them for a job. Someone broke the first one they tried to install. Do they look and work well?
 

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I haven't tried the drop ins but we were just at our supply house yesterday and he showed me a page from Philips catalogue that shows a couple of different retro-fit kits for 2 and 4 foot fluorescent lamps. I haven't seen the product in person or a photo brochure but we are keeping up on the line. We also have some renovation work coming up and there are some surface mount four foot fixtures being spec'd that have LED emitters in them. I will try to find some links and post them up. The drop in LED trouffers are very interesting because it would save a lot of relamp work.
 

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Les Voltage
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I installed about 100 of them. Changing them out, we had about 10 that had problems. some of the LED strips didnt work, some just needed a wiggle and push the wires into the power pack better. some had a few LEDs out in the strip, those had to be replaced. other than that it was easy and a great investment for the customer
 

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Light Emitting Decoration
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The drop in LED trouffers are very interesting because it would save a lot of relamp work.
Egg Zachary!

I installed about 100 of them. Changing them out, we had about 10 that had problems. some of the LED strips didnt work, some just needed a wiggle and push the wires into the power pack better. some had a few LEDs out in the strip, those had to be replaced. other than that it was easy and a great investment for the customer
Because, you don't relamp them. You re-luminaire them.
 

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Sparks Aplenty
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They also make an LED retrofit for existing fluorescent troffers as well. IIRC it was cree that I had seen where they took two strips and were held in place with magnets so you could easily screw them in place. Came with everything needed to change over as well.

My only problem was that for just a little bit more you could get a brand new LED drop in entirely!
 

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Light Emitting Decoration
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They also make an LED retrofit for existing fluorescent troffers as well. IIRC it was cree that I had seen where they took two strips and were held in place with magnets so you could easily screw them in place. Came with everything needed to change over as well.

My only problem was that for just a little bit more you could get a brand new LED drop in entirely!
Philips make T8 drop-ins intended to be used with fluorescent instant start electronic ballast. $25 a piece and 1400 lumens or so. It's a tube shaped lamp that only emits on the lower half, so you can only use it some fixtures.

It won't work well for semi-indirect fixtures that requires light from the top half of the bulb for proper pattern. If you use it in a fixture that do not have a diffuser, it will probably cast a shadow much worse than T8.
 

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Light Emitting Decoration
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Conclusion: retrofitting LED wrap-around with premium T8 fluorescent recommended.

As anyone tried the new Lithonia LED 2x4 drop in's (2GTL4-LP840) or the 4' wrap a rounds (LBL4-LP840)?
We just received a couple of pallets of them for a job. Someone broke the first one they tried to install. Do they look and work well?
Were they like half the price of premium T8 equivalent?

The wrap around should look almost indistinguishable from the fluorescent version from outside while it is turned off I'm comparing datasheets. I've compared the specs on both. The performance of LED version is unacceptable, because sustained lumens per watt appears to be about 30% lower than the T8 25W 4' fluorescent system of comparable output.

LED system is 4,000 lumen new. Conditional to properly keeping the fixtures clean, the LED will decay to 2,800 lm output. Fluorescent will decay to 3,500 lm.

They can both suffer driver failure, so that's a neutral point. When life is this long, they'll require a few cleaning service to keep them efficient so the layer of dust won't be reducing light transmission.

You should be able to negotiate the said cleaning service contract for the cost saved from not going with LED version and still have it way better, because the lamps are not going to get old and deteriorate like LEDs. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

The LED version requires greater number of fixtures to sustain the same output over the lifetime, because they deteriorate more and still require cleaning to remove dust.

Two different models from the same brand. Same appearance. The only difference is one uses permanent decoration lamps.

Brand new out of the box LBL4-LP840 has a rated efficacy of 80 LPW which falls a bit shy of END OF LIFE efficacy of 81 LPW that can be expected from extra long life low power T8, my answer is that the performance is unacceptable. No warranty on color shift.

4000 lm output. 50W input. 80 LPW
They rate it to 50,000 hours until 30 freaking percent of output is lost. :001_huh:
The most significant amounts of decay occurs during the first 6,000 hours.

4,000 * 70% LLDF = 2,800 lm (mean) / 50W = 56 LPW. Light Emissive Decoration system.

http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/ll/documents/specsheets/led wraparound.pdf

The standard fluorescent counterpart. Rated at 89.1% fixture efficiency.

http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/ll/documents/specsheets/curved basket wraps.pdf

Using the General Electric UltraMax system:
GE232MAX-N/Ultra +
EcoLux 25W (50,000 hrs @ 3 hrs/cycle, or 70,000 @ 12hrs/cycle to 50% failure)
These lamps are rated 2,400 lm. The ballast is rated at 87% output and drives two of these lamps with 43W input power.

http://www.gelighting.com/LightingW..._4_Ecolux_25W_Lamp_SellSheet_tcm201-21073.pdf

2,400 x 2 lamps x 0.87 BF x 0.891 eff = 3,720 lm over 43W 86.5 lm/W

3,720 lamp output * 0.94 lamp decay factor = 3,500 lm /43 W = 81.3 lm/W

Using 12hr/cycle, curve shown in sell sheet says you should get about 50,000 hours within 20% lamp failure, so I think that's a fair comparison with LEDs.
 

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Light Emitting Decoration
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Not all lumens are creating equal, but I'm sure you know that if you've seen the product side by side.
What exactly are you trying to say?

the calculations above includes deduction for fixture optical and ballast/driver losses. This is also for T8, which is for general area lighting, comparing 4000-4100K output. The CRIs are both in 80s, but it's already a known fact that CRI is limited in usefulness.


Using S/P ratio to raise specs is not exclusive to particular light source. Same can be applied to fluorescent in the same way it is for LEDs.
 

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Light Emitting Decoration
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I think we've been down this road before, and I found the discussion unfruitful. I'll pass because I don't have the time.
If you say "Not all lumens are creating equal" expect to have more articulated reasoning than "because I said so". I have no idea what you're trying to convey.
 

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Philips make T8 drop-ins intended to be used with fluorescent instant start electronic ballast. $25 a piece and 1400 lumens or so. It's a tube shaped lamp that only emits on the lower half, so you can only use it some fixtures.

It won't work well for semi-indirect fixtures that requires light from the top half of the bulb for proper pattern. If you use it in a fixture that do not have a diffuser, it will probably cast a shadow much worse than T8.
Those suck.

The weak point in any florescent is the ballast.

Ballast bypass is always better.
 

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Light Emitting Decoration
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Those suck.

The weak point in any florescent is the ballast.

Ballast bypass is always better.
The ballast or power supply will be a point of failure no matter how you mess with it. If you bypass the ballast, you're simply using a lamp module with the ballast built into the lamp just like 120v CFLs.
 

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It's not a driver it's an AC to DC rectifier converting 120 AC to 120 DC. Nothing fancy.
It's still electronic and still prone to failure. Just give it time.
I ALWAYS advise the use of surge protection to my customers. It's cheap insurance & every knowledgeable electrician should recommend it. I'm talking panel surge devices not just those wall strips. It's essential for LED'S & just as essential for you guys stuck back in the dark ages (no pun intended)

Most electronic ballasts don't even offer basic built in surge protection. I've never seen it anyways. I see it on power supplies but not ballasts.
 

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Sophomore Member
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Recti failure is only part of the problems I'm seeing with leds. There's also the general manufacturing of the product.
A lot of companies have popped up in the wake of government "green" subsidizing and those are bad enough products. Add to that proven companies that seem to have rushed to the market without proper qc in place.

Just put in 60some pendant strips on a protected system. Half a dozen had loose stab terminations, several others bad drivers, and a few had partial arrays not functioning. Not to mention the fact that emergency drivers appeared to be an afterthought with no provision or instructions, and had to be field engineered for exterior top mounting due to their compact design. This was large and famous manufacturer (which will remain nameless). This is not the first time I've had a 15%+ ratio of duds.
I like where they're going with leds but I don't think manufacturing is there yet.
 
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