[gunnerrocks]

Hello all,

10 year grunt electrician in commercial and industrial, little residential experiance. Bought a new home in Minneapolis and need to upgrade. I'd like to to bring a 200 amp service to detached garage and then feed the house underground. Will i be able to put a 200a panel in house and 100a in garage. The house has gas stove and furnace. May add central air in the future.

I've been reading threads about feed through panels and dual lug meter bases. Are either of these an option, if so which makes more sense.

I want to install the new Square D Homeline or QO panels that are equipped with arc fault and ground fault built into them. Do they make these new panels as feed through? Is there another recommendation? Do i need a 300 amp service from my utility although my load will be nowhere near 300 amps. I'm assuming my meter would then have to be rated at 300 a also.

 

[Buck Parrish]

If it were mine I would install a 320 Amp meter base on the garage. Then install one out door main breaker 20/40 panel. You could feed the garage from it.
The other side of the meter would have a 200 amp disconnect to feed the house 200 amp main breaker 30/40 panel.
Remember the disconnects have to be 'grouped' in the same location.
This is a common way to do it. It allows for many variations. Including installing a 100 amp panel in the garage.
Around here in NC the poco will run the feed to the meter base under ground.

 

[Bootss]

if you increase your service too high the power company may charge you for larger transformer service drop 200 amp should be plenty

 

[chicken steve]

Start with a demand load calc

~CS~

 

[Black Dog]

Hello all,

10 year grunt electrician in commercial and industrial, little residential experiance. Bought a new home in Minneapolis and need to upgrade. I'd like to to bring a 200 amp service to detached garage and then feed the house underground. Will i be able to put a 200a panel in house and 100a in garage. The house has gas stove and furnace. May add central air in the future.

I've been reading threads about feed through panels and dual lug meter bases. Are either of these an option, if so which makes more sense.

I want to install the new Square D Homeline or QO panels that are equipped with arc fault and ground fault built into them. Do they make these new panels as feed through? Is there another recommendation? Do i need a 300 amp service from my utility although my load will be nowhere near 300 amps. I'm assuming my meter would then have to be rated at 300 a also.

Welcome to the forum..

What are you running in your garage?

 

[99cents]

Start with a demand load calc

~CS~

Agreed. I might put 200 amp in if it's new but 100 amps can still cover a lot of house, especially if you have gas heat and a gas range..

If 200 amps is required, I would put the main in the garage and maybe feed a sub in the house at 150.

 

[99cents]

Why would you need a 320 amp meter base for a 200 amp service?

 

[99cents]

I don't know anything about panels with AFCI protection built in but it sounds like a disaster to me.

 

[gunnerrocks]

Just spoke to the inspector. He suggests i install a bypass meter. Thinking down the road is why I thought about a 200 amp in the house for resale . Also, maybe having an EV charging station in the garage someday. Never installed a bypass meter. If it's a 200 amp meter, maybe i should just go with a 150 in the house and a 50 in the garage. What do you think?

 

[99cents]

Why would you go into the garage, feed a main in the house and then come back to the garage to feed a sub? Just put your main in the garage. I do it all the time. Does the NEC forbid this?

 

[wildleg]

1) do as others said and do a loadcalc. actually, do 2 or 3 - one for what you have now, one for what you want to have later, one for what you might settle for

2) per above, you need to make yourself a little plan on what you want to have later, and at least you can provide conduits to locations for stuff you want to add later to make it easy (have a plan).

3) figure out what you can afford to do, finalize your plan, and go forward.


I'm guessing the garage is closest to the utility so that is why you are putting the main there ? I like to have the main closest to where I'm sleeping, especially if weather is a factor, but it's your house.

Lastly, I'm assuming you are at least going to wire for a generator, so I guess it goes without saying that you are going to separate those loads into a subpanel or ats in your plan.

good luck

 

[guest]

Just spoke to the inspector. He suggests i install a bypass meter. Thinking down the road is why I thought about a 200 amp in the house for resale . Also, maybe having an EV charging station in the garage someday. Never installed a bypass meter. If it's a 200 amp meter, maybe i should just go with a 150 in the house and a 50 in the garage. What do you think?

Welcome to the forum. I moved your thread here so it will get more attention.

A bypass meter has nothing to do with its rating, it is a socket assembly which will continue to feed power if the meter is removed. (Usually a POCO requirement, has nothing to do with NEC rules.

Second, the ratings of your subpanels does NOT have to add up to 200 amps maximum. You can run a 200amp panel in your house and a 100 or 200amp panel in your garage. What matters is the actual demand loads.

AS chickensteve said, you need (I say MUST) do a demand load calc to see what your ACTUAL demands will be to determine the size of service you are going to need. Size your Riser and feeders to the disconnect/main panel accordingly. Size the feeders to your subpanels according to the NEC (I don't have my Code book handy at the moment to give you the article number.)

If your house is all-electric, go with 200 amp feeder and panel at the house. Otherwise what 99cents said is the best plan.

For a garage, I'd never go under a 100 amp feeder and panel especially if there is any chance of it ever being a workshop of any kind. BuckParrish has a great idea with outdoor main breaker 20/40 panel. Then just do all your branch circuits to the garage directly from that panel.

 

[macmikeman]

Welcome to the forum. I moved your thread here so it will get more attention.

A bypass meter has nothing to do with its rating, it is a socket assembly which will continue to feed power if the meter is removed. (Usually a POCO requirement, has nothing to do with NEC rules.

Second, the ratings of your subpanels does NOT have to add up to 200 amps maximum. You can run a 200amp panel in your house and a 100 or 200amp panel in your garage. What matters is the actual demand loads.

AS chickensteve said, you need (I say MUST) do a demand load calc to see what your ACTUAL demands will be to determine the size of service you are going to need. Size your Riser and feeders to the disconnect/main panel accordingly. Size the feeders to your subpanels according to the NEC (I don't have my Code book handy at the moment to give you the article number.)

If your house is all-electric, go with 200 amp feeder and panel at the house. Otherwise what 99cents said is the best plan.

For a garage, I'd never go under a 100 amp feeder and panel especially if there is any chance of it ever being a workshop of any kind. BuckParrish has a great idea with outdoor main breaker 20/40 panel. Then just do all your branch circuits to the garage directly from that panel.

Most of the big five manufacture a 4 space meter main combo in 200 amp versions. I have put so many up and split the incoming service to two 100 amp subpanels in my career it is uncountable.

 

[Roger123]

IF you go with a 200amp service just install two 200amp main breaker panels and feed both through double lugs on the load side of the meter.

 

[gunnerrocks]

This was suggested to me early on by a friend. It's either this or what macmikeman suggested. Just need to decide what size of a load I'll have in the house.

 

[gunnerrocks]

Thanks to all that chimed in. Will chew on these ideas for awhile and keep you posted.

 

[99cents]

1) do as others said and do a loadcalc. actually, do 2 or 3 - one for what you have now, one for what you want to have later, one for what you might settle for

2) per above, you need to make yourself a little plan on what you want to have later, and at least you can provide conduits to locations for stuff you want to add later to make it easy (have a plan).

3) figure out what you can afford to do, finalize your plan, and go forward.


I'm guessing the garage is closest to the utility so that is why you are putting the main there ? I like to have the main closest to where I'm sleeping, especially if weather is a factor, but it's your house.

Lastly, I'm assuming you are at least going to wire for a generator, so I guess it goes without saying that you are going to separate those loads into a subpanel or ats in your plan.

good luck

If you're tripping a main, you've got bigger problems than a walk to the garage.

 

[Bootss]

Welcome to the forum..

What are you running in your garage?

why he's running a major production facility out of the garage

:laughing::laughing:

 

[Bootss]

Thanks to all that chimed in. Will chew on these ideas for awhile and keep you posted.

post some pictures of your project and you really get some input

:laughing::laughing:

 

[gunnerrocks]

Service Upgrade Mpls

Here are some photos of the current 30 amp service, the garage, and house. Again, gas stove; dryer; and furnace. This is a 1930's house and never been upgraded. No small appliances branch circuits, no 20 amp in bath, two bedrooms each have 1 receptacle, living rm and dining rm need additional receptacles. No outside reptacles nor inside the garage.

I don't want to attach a mast on the outside of this house, it's stucco. This is why i want to feed the garage first. The utility poll is about 20 feet away from it.

There is no central air so there may be 2-4 ac's running in the summer. We've got 5 running sometimes next door. I had breakers tripping all the time. Been able to add some individual circuits for ac's and heaters.

I originally wanted to put a 200 amp in the garage and feed the house underground with a 150 amp. Just want to have the room for individual circuits if need be in this house. Basement needs an upgrade, the attic may be turned into a bedroom also. After dealing with our house and some of the neighbors, my fathers on an old farm, I just there's just not enough space for what people want now days in a 100 amp service.

Heck, maybe the garage will be turned into a production company after all.