[asphalt]

I just got an email from the Washington State department of Labor and Industries about new legislation being proposed that will introduce changes to our codes and laws. Most of them don't seem too bad. One is a bill to remove the rule that we have to wear our identification cards on our shirts or around our necks. :thumbup:

The one I'm not too fond of is they want a bill to change trainee rules to require them to complete an approved apprenticeship program before they can test for journeyman's license or residential specialty license. Right now trainees only have to complete a certain number of hours on the job under the supervision of a licensed journeyman. For the past few years the state has been raising the number of hours trainees need to renew their license and make them only take in class education, so I guess this move was inevitable.

Do any other state require this sort of thing? Apprenticeship program for non-union trainees?

 

[Navyguy]

In Ontario Canada, the apprenticeship is 9000 hours with three school terms that are 2 sessions of 8 weeks and one session of 10 weeks.

This is the same regardless of union or not; however I understand that some unions have additional course(s) that they want you to take as part of membership.

I know you were looking for states, but I thought you might be interested.

Cheers

John

 

[Voltron]

Similar bill passed in Michigan in 2010, requiring all apprentices to complete an (EAB) approved training program of 576 classroom hours (144 per year) in addition to 8000 hours of hands on, to be able to sit for the test.

 

[BBQ]

Do any other state require this sort of thing? Apprenticeship program for non-union trainees?

Massachusetts requires 600 hours of class time on top of the 8000 hours of on the job training before you can take the journeymen test. This applies to all workers regardless of the union.

Pretty sure CT and RI have similar rules.

 

[EBFD6]

The one I'm not too fond of is they want a bill to change trainee rules to require them to complete an approved apprenticeship program before they can test for journeyman's license or residential specialty license. Right now trainees only have to complete a certain number of hours on the job under the supervision of a licensed journeyman. For the past few years the state has been raising the number of hours trainees need to renew their license and make them only take in class education, so I guess this move was inevitable.

Why would you be opposed to education?

I can understand those who are against licensing requirements because it limits people's ability to make a living by creating a barrier to enter the trade. I disagree with those people, but I understand where they're coming from. However, if your state already has licensing, mandatory education should be part of the process otherwise the license is pretty much worthless in my opinion.

 

[Tsmil]

In Ontario Canada, the apprenticeship is 9000 hours with three school terms that are 2 sessions of 8 weeks and one session of 10 weeks. This is the same regardless of union or not; however I understand that some unions have additional course(s) that they want you to take as part of membership. I know you were looking for states, but I thought you might be interested. Cheers John

Close. 8, 10 and 10 weeks.

 

[glen1971]

In Alberta, you have to go for 8 weeks of school after your first, second and third year of apprenticeship then 12 weeks for your fourth before you are a J-man... The schooling is a good idea, so that they get a grasp on the WHOLE code book, not just the portion that they may be working with the most (ie residential, marine, etc)... Also the theory of how stuff works, instead of just "it works"...

 

[brian john]

Massachusetts requires 600 hours of class time on top of the 8000 hours of on the job training before you can take the journeymen test. This applies to all workers regardless of the union.

Pretty sure CT and RI have similar rules.

What about someone that is licensed in another state, coming to Mass for work?

 

[rivermanchris]

Required education for electricians is probably the best move a state can make. In time it will "weed out" the bad guys and make the trade as a whole stronger, smarter, and better paid.

 

[brian john]

Required education for electricians is probably the best move a state can make. In time it will "weed out" the bad guys and make the trade as a whole stronger, smarter, and better paid.

I have worked with plenty of dolts that finished a complete apprenticeship.
What it will do IF ENFORCED (particularly license) is weed out illegals, until the apprenticeship programs are forced to take illegals, tax payers will be forced to pay for it, contractors will be forced to train them and it will be bilingual. Or illegals will get a pass as this will be seen discriminatory

 

[sparky402]

I have tried to get an iowa license by testing and they say im not qualified even though ive had my EC in nebraska and in one of iowas cities i have my EC but the state says they wont recognize any of my time so i can only register as an apprentice.

 

[brian john]

I have tried to get an iowa license by testing and they say im not qualified even though ive had my EC in nebraska and in one of iowas cities i have my EC but the state says they wont recognize any of my time so i can only register as an apprentice.

That is because ignorant F's are in charge. Nebraska needs to reciprocate and ban all Iowa electricians.

 

[sparky402]

That is because ignorant F's are in charge. Nebraska needs to reciprocate and ban all Iowa electricians.

All i wanted them to do was let me take the test since i have beenworking in iowa with one of the city licenses and they wouldnt even recognize my time to test.

 

[EBFD6]

What about someone that is licensed in another state, coming to Mass for work?

From the MA Division of Professional Licensure website:

13.13: Waiver of Education and Work Experience Requirements for Applicants Licensed in a State Without Reciprocity with Massachusetts

(1) An Applicant who holds a current license issued by another state may request a waiver of the clock hours of classroom instruction and work experience requirements for the equivalent license in Massachusetts provided the applicant held his or her license for a period of not less than one year, having been actively engaged in licensed work and such license was issued by examination. The applicants education and work experience required by the other jurisdiction must be equivalent to the education and experience requirements provided in 237 CMR 13.00. Further, all of the following requirements must be met:

(a) Such request shall be made in writing at the time of application and may be granted by the Board upon review.
(b) Each such request for waiver shall include a statement certified by the Keeper of Records of the jurisdiction issuing such journeyman license that such license is current and in good standing.
(c) The Board may request additional information regarding out of state education and work experience In its discretion, the Board may determine that such education and/or experience is not substantially equivalent to the requirements in Massachusetts and may deny credit for part or all of the education and experience submitted.
​

(2) In no case shall an applicant for licensure receive credit for the education or experience unless such education and experience was based on the National Electrical Code then in effect or an International Electrical Code then in effect or related adopted standards acceptable to the Board.

 

[Michigan Master]

The one I'm not too fond of is they want a bill to change trainee rules to require them to complete an approved apprenticeship program before they can test for journeyman's license or residential specialty license.

Do any other state require this sort of thing? Apprenticeship program for non-union trainees?

Yes, education is not exclusively a union requirement.

Many state and company apprenticeship programs follow the DOL requirements in § CFR Title 29, Part 29.

 

[NacBooster29]

I don't understand, why anyone would oppose actual requirements to take the test. It makes the license more valuable.

 

[chadw]

arizona: anyone can simply say they are a "journeyman", professional...etc. there is no licensing, period. and no this isnt a invitation. .....they need to fix this.

 

[NacBooster29]

arizona: anyone can simply say they are a "journeyman", professional...etc. there is no licensing, period. and no this isnt a invitation. .....they need to fix this.

It's one thing if its your own home. To a certain degree. Excluding services upgrades, especially.
But when you render a service and have no license to show formal training, that is a disaster waiting to happen.
Be it commercial work, residential, or even an owner working on his rental property..these types of jobs are not d.I.y., and should be required to have a licensed electrician handle.
Although I don't like big brother having his hands out for more fees etc, it levels the field and makes us worth more.

 

[chadw]

It's one thing if its your own home. To a certain degree. Excluding services upgrades, especially.
But when you render a service and have no license to show formal training, that is a disaster waiting to happen.
Be it commercial work, residential, or even an owner working on his rental property..these types of jobs are not d.I.y., and should be required to have a licensed electrician handle.
Although I don't like big brother having his hands out for more fees etc, it levels the field and makes us worth more.

exactly and well said. I guess their theory here is the electrical inspector will save the day....idk

 

[asphalt]

Don't get wrong, I'm not against more education for electricians, I'm just no too fond of the changes they keep making to the education requirements in this state. Also, I was planning on starting a side career educating. This puts a little damper on it, but only a little one.

This is something we've all seen coming for a while in Washington. The education requirements have been going up every few years and a full on apprenticeship program was inevitable. I'm not aware of any program outside of the union that offers apprenticeship programs right now, but I also haven't done much looking.

Thanks for all the feedback, it's nice to see that others states are doing this as well.