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Discussion Starter #41
Some people dont like it but I doubt its because of the training program probably more to do with union schools vs non union schools But wherever you go is better then going nowhere. I will tell you what I know I went to abci I passed the journeyman test 1st try scoring better then my electrician buddies who went elsewhere or nowhere. Whatever choice of school you do make will work out fine for you, if you do your part and want to learn.

Thank you for telling me your direct experience. How is the business now, if I may ask?


Last year I contacted:
ABC
3720 Coconut Creek Parkway, Sutie D
Coconut Creek, Florida 33066

and they told me I need to find a contractor to take me on board before I can start the apprenticeship. With the Union they assign you to a contractor, if there is one available, of course, otherwise you have to wait.

This is what ABC wrote:

"The apprenticeship programs you mentioned are all 4 year programs and they meet in the evenings. We have our Electrical and HVAC programs in our Coconut Creek location and Electrical and Plumbing Miami location. The classes in our Coconut Creek location meet twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 6:30-9:00 P.M. and our Miami classes meet only once a week from 6:00-10:00.

There are two ways to enter our programs: as an apprentice or as a craft trainee. The apprentice comes to us when their employers-contractors send them to our institute and they pay for their administrative fees for the schooling. The craft trainee is responsible for finding employment as we do not have job placement.

The craft trainee is not working in the field of study and is responsible for paying for the tuition themselves which is $1195 per year and it includes books. The difference between the two is that since the apprentice is working in the field and is being sponsored by their employer the Department of Education will give them a certificate certifying them in their trade upon completion of our program. The craft trainee will not receive that certificate because they don't have any hands on training in their chosen field."

They also said:

"Once an apprentice completes all of the componments for the 4 years he will be issued a certificate by The Department of Education certifying them in that field of study. They are then eligble to apply for their journeyman test with County Licensing Board."
 

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Thank you for telling me your direct experience. How is the business now, if I may ask?


Last year I contacted:
ABC
3720 Coconut Creek Parkway, Sutie D
Coconut Creek, Florida 33066

and they told me I need to find a contractor to take me on board before I can start the apprenticeship. With the Union they assign you to a contractor, if there is one available, of course, otherwise you have to wait.

This is what ABC wrote:

"The apprenticeship programs you mentioned are all 4 year programs and they meet in the evenings. We have our Electrical and HVAC programs in our Coconut Creek location and Electrical and Plumbing Miami location. The classes in our Coconut Creek location meet twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 6:30-9:00 P.M. and our Miami classes meet only once a week from 6:00-10:00.

There are two ways to enter our programs: as an apprentice or as a craft trainee. The apprentice comes to us when their employers-contractors send them to our institute and they pay for their administrative fees for the schooling. The craft trainee is responsible for finding employment as we do not have job placement.

The craft trainee is not working in the field of study and is responsible for paying for the tuition themselves which is $1195 per year and it includes books. The difference between the two is that since the apprentice is working in the field and is being sponsored by their employer the Department of Education will give them a certificate certifying them in their trade upon completion of our program. The craft trainee will not receive that certificate because they don't have any hands on training in their chosen field."

They also said:

"Once an apprentice completes all of the componments for the 4 years he will be issued a certificate by The Department of Education certifying them in that field of study. They are then eligble to apply for their journeyman test with County Licensing Board."
Thats the ABC i went to in Coconut creek. If I was you I would get a electrical job and have the contractor send you because to take the journeymans test you need the 8000 work hours so its kinda pointless to do the schooling without working. I still work for a contractor now and work is good (if thats what you meant by "how is the business now").. Union may be great in other states I cant speak for them, I can speak for how it is in South Florida and here the union is NOTHING, you would do much better financially as a handyman then a union worker here.
 

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Completing an apprenticeship doesn’t necessarily make you a journeyman. If you are working somewhere that requires licensing, you will have to pass the exam to become a licensed journeyman. Graduating from an apprenticeship program should make you eligible to sit for the exam. Each state has their own rules; some states have very loose requirements to be eligible to take the exam, while others are very stringent, and some states don’t regulate licensing at the state level.

Another option to look into is programs that are registered with the United States Department of Labor Office of Apprenticeship. These programs must meet parameters established under the National Apprenticeship Act that are designed to protect the welfare of the apprentice. The Act and its promulgating regulations are administered by the Department of Labor's Office of Apprenticeship or a State Apprenticeship Agency approved by the Secretary of Labor for federal purposes.

A Registered Apprenticeship program is sponsored by an individual business or an employer association and may be partnered with a labor organization through a collective bargaining agreement. Upon finishing the training program, an apprentice earns a "Completion of Registered Apprenticeship" certificate, an industry issued, nationally recognized credential that validates proficiency in an apprenticeable occupation.

http://www.doleta.gov/OA/eta_default.cfm
 

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A Registered Apprenticeship program is sponsored by an individual business or an employer association and may be partnered with a labor organization through a collective bargaining agreement. Upon finishing the training program, an apprentice earns a "Completion of Registered Apprenticeship" certificate, an industry issued, nationally recognized credential that validates proficiency in an apprenticeable occupation.

http://www.doleta.gov/OA/eta_default.cfm
ABCI is one of those schools, checked the link since I said before it was nationally recognized I had to re-verify ;)

Off the link provided:

Your search for BROWARD County in the State of FL
Shows the following 3 sponsors: Data listed on Jun 27 2013
Occupation: ELECTRICIAN
Sponsor Name Address City State ABCI ELECTRICIANS GNJ 3730 COCONUT CREEK PARKWAY SUITE #201 COCONUT CREEK FL
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
Thats the ABC i went to in Coconut creek. If I was you I would get a electrical job and have the contractor send you because to take the journeymans test you need the 8000 work hours so its kinda pointless to do the schooling without working. I still work for a contractor now and work is good (if thats what you meant by "how is the business now").. Union may be great in other states I cant speak for them, I can speak for how it is in South Florida and here the union is NOTHING, you would do much better financially as a handyman then a union worker here.
You are right and I understood the same, school without working is useless.

I think everybody works for a contractor, wether it is union or non-union.

Thank you for the information about money.

By "How is the business now?" I meant how is the situation, the market now, up or down? The Ft Lauderdale local told me it is "pretty good", the Miami local told me it is "quite slow", which sounds a contradiction to me somehow, but I might be wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Completing an apprenticeship doesn’t necessarily make you a journeyman. If you are working somewhere that requires licensing, you will have to pass the exam to become a licensed journeyman. Graduating from an apprenticeship program should make you eligible to sit for the exam. Each state has their own rules; some states have very loose requirements to be eligible to take the exam, while others are very stringent, and some states don’t regulate licensing at the state level.

Another option to look into is programs that are registered with the United States Department of Labor Office of Apprenticeship. These programs must meet parameters established under the National Apprenticeship Act that are designed to protect the welfare of the apprentice. The Act and its promulgating regulations are administered by the Department of Labor's Office of Apprenticeship or a State Apprenticeship Agency approved by the Secretary of Labor for federal purposes.

A Registered Apprenticeship program is sponsored by an individual business or an employer association and may be partnered with a labor organization through a collective bargaining agreement. Upon finishing the training program, an apprentice earns a "Completion of Registered Apprenticeship" certificate, an industry issued, nationally recognized credential that validates proficiency in an apprenticeable occupation.

http://www.doleta.gov/OA/eta_default.cfm
Thank you for your note. You are right. I had checked that website before and I also contacted the people in charge, but it seems like they do not know much. The Federal people told me to contact the State people and vice-versa. I could get more info by reading stuff on the internet than what they told me which was basically nothing.

I also wonder how the certificate can be recognized nationwide if each State, County and City can have its own regulations and possibly requires a license to work...... This is really not clear to me.

Can you please post the link with the Registered Apprenticeships please? I cannot find it any more.
 

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Thank you for your note. You are right. I had checked that website before and I also contacted the people in charge, but it seems like they do not know much. The Federal people told me to contact the State people and vice-versa. I could get more info by reading stuff on the internet than what they told me which was basically nothing.

I also wonder how the certificate can be recognized nationwide if each State, County and City can have its own regulations and possibly requires a license to work...... This is really not clear to me.

Can you please post the link with the Registered Apprenticeships please? I cannot find it any more.
The link he posted is the link to registered apprenticeships ;) work in the tri county are is good (palm beach, broward, and dade counties), dont know who told you miami was slow but thats not the case (unless you talked to union), there is many companies here and most seem to be doing well, im seeing more and more new service trucks/vans/sprinters out on the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
The link he posted is the link to registered apprenticeships ;) work in the tri county are is good (palm beach, broward, and dade counties), dont know who told you miami was slow but thats not the case (unless you talked to union), there is many companies here and most seem to be doing well, im seeing more and more new service trucks/vans/sprinters out on the road.
That is the link to the home page. Can you please post the link where all the recognized schools are listed? You mentioned ABC is recognized. Can you please post that link? I cannot find it any more.

Thank you for the news. That's good news. I did call the Union. I called the training center (for apprenticeships) of IBEW (Union) in Ft Lauderdale and Miami. This is the website: http://www.njatc.org/training/find.aspx

Do you also do HVAC by chance?
 

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I think everybody works for a contractor, wether it is union or non-union.
Not necessarily. For what I think you are looking for, probably yes. However, I did my apprenticeship in a manufacturing shop; I am an industrial electrician. On the USDOLOA website this program is identified as Occupation: Electrician, Maintenance.

I also wonder how the certificate can be recognized nationwide if each State, County and City can have its own regulations and possibly requires a license to work...... This is really not clear to me.
It should qualify you to sit for any state (or county or city) licensing exam.

I think I found the link. It is http://oa.doleta.gov/bat.cfm , is it?
Yes, that is the link.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Union may be great in other states I cant speak for them, I can speak for how it is in South Florida and here the union is NOTHING, you would do much better financially as a handyman then a union worker here.
Hi Erik,

do non-union contractors/companies pay for benefits like health insurance and welfare (ex. 401K) ?
 

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Hi Erik,

do non-union contractors/companies pay for benefits like health insurance and welfare (ex. 401K) ?
Depends on the company, I will tell you that you will get a paycheck with hours on it. I am not anti union, if it was strong here I would weight my options, if I lived in a strong union state again I would weight my options for what best for me personally. Here in south florida if you join a union you wont work, they cant compete, 5x the cost+ 10x the time to complete the job= client hires non union.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Depends on the company, I will tell you that you will get a paycheck with hours on it. I am not anti union, if it was strong here I would weight my options, if I lived in a strong union state again I would weight my options for what best for me personally. Here in south florida if you join a union you wont work, they cant compete, 5x the cost+ 10x the time to complete the job= client hires non union.
Thank you. I understand what you say. I was asking because it seems like that the Union pays for Health and welfare benefits, so I was wondering if a non-union contractor/company would do the same.

Now I wonder if lower costs and less time for clients means lower pay rate and lower/no benefits for electricians :) . This could be the catch.
 

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Thank you. I understand what you say. I was asking because it seems like that the Union pays for Health and welfare benefits, so I was wondering if a non-union contractor/company would do the same.

Now I wonder if lower costs and less time for clients means lower pay rate and lower/no benefits for electricians :) . This could be the catch.
I do not get health benefits threw my work (however I dont want them im fully covered for life so I dont need them), I had full medical benefits with the company I worked for before even though I didnt need it, my friends who work for different companies for the most part have medical with the option for dental. I cant complain about my pay. I will say here in south florida you will be started out at a low wage with no experience, there is alot of competition here so as a noob ur not a big asset to the company, prove yourself and the raises come fairly quick.

About your "lower costs and less time" point, all non-union contractors nation wide take about the same amount of time to do things, they just dont take naps and breaks every hour.
 

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Thank you. I understand what you say. I was asking because it seems like that the Union pays for Health and welfare benefits, so I was wondering if a non-union contractor/company would do the same.

Now I wonder if lower costs and less time for clients means lower pay rate and lower/no benefits for electricians :) . This could be the catch.
Yes it is the catch:laughing::no:

It all depends on the size and type of contractor you end up working for,The larger Electrical firms will offer training and Benefits mostly the smaller ones are less likely to do so .

If you get into the IBEW then they offer all those benefits and the training plus good pay.:)
 

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Thank you for your note. You are right. I had checked that website before and I also contacted the people in charge, but it seems like they do not know much. The Federal people told me to contact the State people and vice-versa. I could get more info by reading stuff on the internet than what they told me which was basically nothing.
:laughing:,,,Well said..:laughing:

I also wonder how the certificate can be recognized nationwide if each State, County and City can have its own regulations and possibly requires a license to work...... This is really not clear to me.

Can you please post the link with the Registered Apprenticeships please? I cannot find it any more.
Here is a handy link with info for each states requirements for electricians.... http://www.mikeholt.com/stateceu.php


.Good thread Paul...:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #58
I do not get health benefits threw my work (however I dont want them im fully covered for life so I dont need them), I had full medical benefits with the company I worked for before even though I didnt need it, my friends who work for different companies for the most part have medical with the option for dental. I cant complain about my pay. I will say here in south florida you will be started out at a low wage with no experience, there is alot of competition here so as a noob ur not a big asset to the company, prove yourself and the raises come fairly quick.

About your "lower costs and less time" point, all non-union contractors nation wide take about the same amount of time to do things, they just dont take naps and breaks every hour.
Hi Erik, thank you for replying, Useful feedback, for me, to understand. I was guessing there must be much competition in South Florida based on what you said previously.

Do you know the hourly date of the Union by chance?
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Yes it is the catch:laughing::no:
Hi Harry. I was right then. It could be the catch.

It all depends on the size and type of contractor you end up working for,The larger Electrical firms will offer training and Benefits mostly the smaller ones are less likely to do so .
It makes sense.


If you get into the IBEW then they offer all those benefits and the training plus good pay.:)
The thing is... Does union have (enough) work to do? I called the NJATC training center in Ft Lauderdale and they told me business there is "pretty good" when I specifically asked, but when I called the NJATC in Miami, the training coordinator (you can find his name on the website) told me the business is slow there now.

Also "Ft Lauderdale" told me that they cannot guarantee an apprenticeship does his apprenticeship 4/5 years straight/non-stop. If the contractor you are with lays you off and there is any other available to take you on board, you have to wait. So your apprenticeship will automatically be longer than what it should be, because it is calculated on the hours worked, not on the number of years have been enrolled (obviously).

However, if they ask apprenticeships to commit for 4/5 years, they should also guarantee I will complete my apprenticeship by that time. It is unfair the only one party, the weakest (ME) has to commit and the other no. Just my two cents, but Im pretty convinced of what I say.

You will say it is the market, fair enough, but our lives cannot be commanded/regulated only the the freaking market.
 
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