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No more SHARED Neutrals on Emergency cirucuits

5423 Views 52 Replies 22 Participants Last post by  Big John
It appears they finally outlawed shared neutrals for emergency circuits in the 2014 NEC. 700.19 states

2014 NEC said:
... "The branch circuits serving emergency lighting and power circuits shall not be part of a multiwire branch circuit.
;)

It also appears they are slowly trying to require some type of emergency lighting in panels rooms, at least for the main disconnecting means. They added to 700.16

2014 NEC said:
... Where an emergency system is installed, emergency illumination shall be provided in the area of the disconnecting means required by 225.31 and 230.70 as applicable, where the disconnecting means are installed indoors.
What do you think of this?
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I have not used a shared neutral in years, most specs prohibit it
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I have not used a shared neutral [on emergency cirucits] in years
That↑
Wire cos put in a bid too in the CMP.

Anyways, that's a good catch, I wouldn't have noticed that.
I have not used a shared neutral in years, most specs prohibit it
Same here.
For any A/V or sound rack circuits, my specs prohibit MWBC's as well.

But I will (and have in the past) use them for lighting and general purpose recepts.
For any A/V or sound rack circuits, my specs prohibit MWBC's as well.
Then you better make sure the building service and feeders don't contain a shared neutral either. :rolleyes:
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Then you better make sure the building service and feeders don't contain a shared neutral either. :rolleyes:
Copper industry wins again.

Just in my one man poll, in 43 years I cannot think of one case were a MWBC has been an issue in an EM. system.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just my experience.
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It appears they finally outlawed shared neutrals for emergency circuits in the 2014 NEC. 700.19 states

FWIW, they were prohibited in patient bed locations in the last code cycle.
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For any A/V or sound rack circuits, my specs prohibit MWBC's as well.
But you are nuts and think that changes how things work.
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It appears they finally outlawed shared neutrals for emergency circuits in the 2014 NEC. 700.19 states



;)

It also appears they are slowly trying to require some type of emergency lighting in panels rooms, at least for the main disconnecting means. They added to 700.16



What do you think of this?
The first quote will sell a lot more white insulated conductors. The second quote makes sense.
Many people forget about the advantages of a mwbc.
But you are nuts and think that changes how things work.
I am nuts and I don't give a s**t what YOU think, I KNOW it makes a difference in how things work on certain loads.

And I knew you and your boyfriend:
Then you better make sure the building service and feeders don't contain a shared neutral either. :rolleyes:
..were gonna troll along and follow up on this.

Hook, line and sinker dudes. :whistling2::laughing:

Besides, it appears that I am not the only one who feels that way:

It appears they finally outlawed shared neutrals for emergency circuits in the 2014 NEC. 700.19 states



;)

It also appears they are slowly trying to require some type of emergency lighting in panels rooms, at least for the main disconnecting means. They added to 700.16



What do you think of this?
I don't know what effect MWBC's would have in EM circuits, but someone somewhere found an issue with it.

I have not used a shared neutral in years, most specs prohibit it
And with some A/V and professional dimming gear, manufacturer's instructions do too.

Same here.
FWIW, they were prohibited in patient bed locations in the last code cycle.
Now Porky and PD, are you gonna man up and call brother, 360max, Bbsound and Awg-Dawg nuts too? :rolleyes::laughing:
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Emergency lighting is never a bad thing.
I am nuts and I don't give a s**t what YOU think, I KNOW it makes a difference in how things work on certain loads.
That is fine, stay wrong.:thumbup:

There is nothing in the electrical panel that changes physics and every time you claim there is an angel looses its wings.:jester:


And I knew you and your boyfriend:


..were gonna troll along and follow up on this.

Hook, line and sinker dudes. :whistling2::laughing:

Besides, it appears that I am not the only one who feels that way:



I don't know what effect MWBC's would have in EM circuits, but someone somewhere found an issue with it.



And with some A/V and professional dimming gear, manufacturer's instructions do too.





Now Porky and PD, are you gonna man up and call brother, 360max, Bbsound and Awg-Dawg nuts too? :rolleyes::laughing:
I will call anyone nuts that claims moving the point that a neutral becomes common up stream changes how electricity behaves. (This assumes proper installation, no open connections etc)

I know you will claim it screwed up a system you did but there was something else that changed not just the elimination of the MWBC

Or does science work different for you?:laughing:
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That is fine, stay wrong.:thumbup:

There is nothing in the electrical panel that changes physics .....
Oh really? So the resistance, inductance, capacitance and impedance of say a 250mcm feeder, the bus bar and a #12 conductor are all the same? If you really believe that then you have some serious gaps in your understanding of the physics of electricity and Ohm's Law.

So all the work and studies that have resulted in use of 200% neutrals and "K" Rated transformers to avoid damage from harmonics are all bullchit too, right?

Thankfully there are plenty of others who don't act so close minded and actually realize that the real world is more diverse than BBQ land. :laughing:

Speaking of which, you should know about the POS (that's cash registers guys, not the other POS) circuits of your customers..I'm willing to bet that most panels serving those loads on new builds have 200% neutrals and maybe even specs prohibiting MWBC's as well.

This battle is getting old and if you need to, go back about 10 years to our discussion on ECN where I gave a detailed explanation of why MWBC's can cause issues with certain loads, where even you conceded that my position was plausible. :thumbsup:

The rest of your post was too ludicrous to even respond to.
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I have not used a shared neutral in years, most specs prohibit it
Where are you working that MWBC's are prohibited?? I thought you were a union clown? What kind of commercial jobs do you do that don't take advantage of typical 3-phase wiring??

If you run a pipe and 3 circuits, you run 3 neutrals in there? :eek:

You only use 2-wire MC?? You don't take advance of 3 or 4-wire when you need multiple circuits ran to the same place?? :blink:
HackWork said:
Where are you working that MWBC's are prohibited?? I thought you were a union clown? What kind of commercial jobs do you do that don't take advantage of typical 3-phase wiring?? If you run a pipe and 3 circuits, you run 3 neutrals in there? :eek: You only use 2-wire MC?? You don't take advance of 3 or 4-wire when you need multiple circuits ran to the same place?? :blink:
Full boats and no handle ties are how I roll in our plants. Stuff works great
Copper.org is happy.
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