Most my experience is in commercial. If I have a Non IC potlight is it persmissible to install in an insulated ceiling if i build a box around the the fixture between the joists so no insulation can contact it. I seem to remember hear that was okay but cant think on what minimum clearances will be. Local area is alberta with the house in question being bonnyville.
Non IC potlights
CEC
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Joined
·
7,205 Posts
Yeah code dictates clearances, so yes if you build a box I think it would be okay. Seems like a lot of work just to use non-ic's.
Joined
·
3,252 Posts
Whoever "they" are, they could have gone down to Home Depot and gotten a 4" Halo IC housing for $25. Building a drywall box around each light seems like a huge pain and bound to cost more, not to mention the vapour barrier boot you have to install as well.
Joined
·
3,664 Posts
You remembered correct... about the box. That was pre IC fixtures tho. Now days there is no code on building boxes so it can't be done. If the fixture is going to be in contact with insulation you must use an approved fixture. End of storey.
Wait...
That would be attic and truses no? You say joists. This leads me to believe you are putting pots in say a basement with insulation as a sound barrier.
Is that what you are doing? If so you don't need a box.
CEC 2012: Index, Recessed luminaries - 30-900 to 30-912
30-902 is the rule you would want to look at if an attic is not involved.
Edit: On re-reading 30-902 maybe you do have an out. I'd run that by an inspector tho. Actually if she was in the attic space I'd tell the customer to supply IC fixtures.
Joined
·
7,205 Posts
Recessed luminaires
Rule 30-900 General
Because heat is not dissipated from recessed luminaires as rapidly as from other types of luminaires, a higher operating temperature results. This necessitates special installation methods to prevent hazards including the potential for the overheating of adjacent combustible materials.
Rule 30-902 Spacing for Non-IC type luminaires
To avoid the overheating of combustible construction adjacent to the recessed luminaire, Rule 30-902 requires that every recessed luminaire enclosure marked “Type NON-IC” (not intended for insulation contact) be installed so that it has at least 13 mm clearance from combustible material, except at the points of support, and that it also be at least 76 mm from thermal insulation to avoid overheating of the luminaire. Recessed luminaires may be blanketed with thermal insulation if they are specifically approved for such use and are so marked. See Rule 30-906.
Rule 30-902 recognizes that for practical purposes it is necessary to have some part of the recessed luminaire closer than 13 mm from combustible material to permit a suitable mounting means. The mounting means and method of mounting are part of the certification of the recessed luminaire, and the information should be provided with the installation instructions included with the recessed luminaire.
Use the IC can and the vapour boot. You have two inspectors to deal with. For the extra ten bucks it's not worth screwing around.
www.ecaa.ab.ca/Attachments/Announcements/24/Installing Airtight Recessed Luminaires.pdf
Tell that to the building inspector when he jackboots you into doing it his way anyway. Vapour barriers have become sacred in this province.
Joined
·
7,205 Posts
Good information in there!
On the subject of pot lights, anyone ever seen an IC can inside a boot with insulation stuffed around the can? I've never seen it before, but had a home owner say he was going to do that.. thought about it and figured it's not a bad idea.
Joined
·
3,252 Posts
I have seen that done by insulators after we completed the rough-in. The idea was to prevent cold spots where the lights are. Seems legit.FrunkSlammer said:
Very bad idea. Better to throw some batt insulation on top of the can if he is concerned about the insulation void. I would be concerned about insulation inside the vapour hat collecting condensation and staining the ceiling.
Infiltration is the bigger concern here, not R value. Even if you Tuck Tape everything, you're still going to get some cold air flow into the void.
Hi guys. Long time luker. I work mostly in commercial office space. 99 % of the time we use non-ic housing, as there is no insulation involved in t bar ceiling design with regular tiles. As opposed to attic in residential, where cec rule 30-902 / 30-904 will apply. In one of upcoming project gc will be installing 24" x 48" FIBERGLASS tiles which are 1 1/2" thick by Armstrong optima lay-in and tegular -3155 in office space. I want to confirm if we will be considering these fiberglass tiles as combustible and use Type Ic housing as per rule. 30-904 Spacings for Non-IC — Marked spacings type luminaires The recessed portion of every recessed luminaire marked “Type Non-IC, marked spacings” shall be installed to maintain a minimum spacing from thermal insulation and combustible material at every point other than the point of support in accordance with the manufacturer’s spacings marked on the luminaire.
Thanks in advance and I am learning from these forums everyday.
Thanks in advance and I am learning from these forums everyday.
Joined
·
189 Posts
It is not allowed in Ontario anymore,at one time it was acceptable but not now,I was told.
Joined
·
7,205 Posts
On a site now, the GC is cheap (usual) and building boxes for non-ic cans.
The thing I don't get is these cans aren't airtight and with no vapour boot around them, won't this totally negate the entire barrier? I don't like it, but it's not my house!
The thing I don't get is these cans aren't airtight and with no vapour boot around them, won't this totally negate the entire barrier? I don't like it, but it's not my house!
If he builds his box, wraps it in poly and then Tuck Tapes it to his VB, he should be okay. But I fail to see how a GC can be saving money doing that when a blue boot does the same thing and costs like six bucks.
The only time I see custom made boxes is in multi-family where drywall is boxed out to meet building code (fire). And that's between floors so insulation isn't an issue. Okay, they box them out and VB them on the upper floor...
Your GC has $hit for brains. Normally, GC's who have $hit for brains also have $hit in the bank. Does this guy pay his bills? I would put him on your watch list
.22$ per can here for 4"
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
